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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: David E on March 27, 2014, 09:25:40 AM

Title: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
Post by: David E on March 27, 2014, 09:25:40 AM
I'm trying to determine which of the glass jelly moulds are made by whom. The Bagley ones appear to be:
  • Round, with six 'balls' on the top, four sizes
  • Oval, with six balls on the top, two sizes
  • Rabbit shape in three sizes

    • Pyrex ones I know little about, but they appear to be marked with the usual 'JAJ' (James A Jobling) and are found on eBay.

    However, I know that Chance Bros. made at least one (1 pint, but no other details) and I'm trying to track it down. There may be others in different sizes I would guess. Can anyone help me narrow the gap down? I have come across this style, that's embossed 'British Made', which could likely be one:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141233114213

    Some different ones can be seen on eBay:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321356902468
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251485986786
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161156095305
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360695313589
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121159313768
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281290121946

    This one is very interesting (Reg. No. 803268, Canning Town Glassworks, 30/5/35):
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151262851891

    Thanks for looking.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2014, 11:49:46 AM
    David —
  • See Charles Carpenter — Sutherland Brawn customised jelly mould (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,47371.0.html).
  • Davidson trade cat. - conventional, round and oval, no mention of size, not in 1936 price list.
  • Jobling round JAJ Pyrex shown in T&W Museums "PYREX 60 Years of Design", plate 19.
  • Jobling/Greener mid '30s trade cat. - conventional oval flint, Pattern No. 14˝, 1 pint and ˝ pint.
  • Individual portion creme caramel mould decorated on the outside, "REGD No / 699915", registered to "Bailey".
  • Unmarked conventional oval with anchor & rope in the base.
  • ... Sowerby?
  • ... Wood Bros (known for heat resistant glass) ?
    • Good luck, you will need it!

    Bernard C.  ;D

    ps - I believe it's marked "BRITISH MAKE" - not Made, and all uppercase.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: agincourt17 on March 27, 2014, 12:08:24 PM
    Here are photos of the Canning Town Glassworks RD 803268 (30 May 1935) ‘turtle’ jelly mould in two different sizes. The large one measures7.5x5x3 inches (and seems to correspond to the one shown in the ebay link) and the small one 5.9x4x2.3 inches.

    (Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by Rob Young).

    Fred.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on March 27, 2014, 01:40:34 PM
    Thanks Bernard.

    Bit confused over your conclusions - there are 8 links, so I assume your numbering follows them.

    1. There is no mention of the name on this, only 'British Made' - this could be Chance as it was known to mark products as such.
    2. Did you mean this (321356902468) to be the Sutherland Brawn one? The 'Berries & Stem' might fit this design.
    3. This link shows five moulds. The rear two are definitely Bagley, but what about the three in front?

    After this I'm not sure.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Bernard C on March 27, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
    David — my eight numbered points are just a list of eight extra points that you might find useful.   They are not linked to your opening post in any way.   My ps was the only link back to your post.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on March 28, 2014, 10:47:04 AM
    Ah, thanks Bernard.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on May 21, 2014, 12:49:17 PM
    another tortoise mould which I found this morning, and posting just to show the Registration No. details a little more clearly.
    I expected to find wear on the rim - but not so, and in fact this example appears to have spent its life resting upside down on the flattened large 'T' on the creatures back.
    This one measures about 7.5" long, so appears to correspond to the large size mentioned by Fred. 
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Ivo on May 21, 2014, 01:19:50 PM
    The ones with 8 balls on top, the ones with rope and anchor - Leerdam 1906.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: agincourt17 on May 21, 2014, 07:41:46 PM
    An oval clear pressed glass jelly mould, 5x4x3 inches. Impressed: Reg No.547034...No. 7317.

    (Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by shannybanger).

    RD 547034 was registered by William A Bailey, London, on 4 August 1909.

    According to http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/mana-b.htm :
    “Bailey, William A, London, England (c 1900 - c 1939)
    Described as 'Potter & Glass Manufacturer' in the register of designs (of which he registered 123 from 1903 to 1938)…”

    Fred.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on May 22, 2014, 07:58:17 AM
    Is this the one you mean that has eight bobbles, Ivo?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321356902468

    Probably not, as I can count nine  ;D It looks like berries on top with leaves down the side. I notice this one attracted 11 bids and 5 different bidders, so it was of some interest.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Bernard C on May 26, 2014, 04:30:00 AM
    David — Saw an unusually tall standard jelly mould recently, probably 1 pint or more, then promptly forgot which stand it was on as I was distracted by a box that was nearly a Jobling Opalique Novelty Box but wasn't.   As you are probably aware these amazing boxes are as rare as hen's teeth and are off the scale of desirability.

    Also in, a marked Bailey creme caramel.   Do you want pictures?   I will be having a camera session in about two to three weeks.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on May 26, 2014, 05:23:34 AM
    You're up early, Bernard! We're just getting ready for Malvern.

    Thanks, the marked Bailey mould will be very helpful in the process of ID'ing and elimination. Perhaps this thread will enable more examples to be included. I've also started collating information on ashtrays, as this is another area of doubt and confusion.  :P

    I have three different jellies now, two possibly by Chance, so will add these to the post when the photo tent is back up.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Lustrousstone on May 26, 2014, 02:33:54 PM
    Davidson jelly on pdf page 20 here (http://www.cmog.org/library/davidsons-patent-primrose-blue-pearline?search=library_collection%3Abb1e9deb68aef06f0d2055b86fa831bd&page=0)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on May 26, 2014, 05:05:21 PM
    Interesting - same sort of design as Bagley with the six bobbles on top.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on May 26, 2014, 06:53:45 PM
    clear, traditional shaped glass moulds without any id are common at boot fairs - antiques markets etc., and usually very uncommon to find one with any provenance - and I do look at most that I see.

    I don't know if this Harry Peck example is of any interest David - I have to admit to never bothering to research the piece, but would assume by the evidence of wear that it must have some reasonable age.

    The wording, in upper case, is in relief on the ledge below the six domes/bobbles, and says.....HARRY PECK & CO., and SNOW HILL LONDON.
    The mould is about 5.5" (140 m/m long), and the domes have deliberately flattened feet which show reasonable wear.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on May 27, 2014, 10:23:09 PM
    Thanks Paul, it all adds flavour to the jelly mix.

    It doesn't appear as though Harry Peck was a glassmaker - no mention in A History of Glassmaking in London, by David C Watts, but it looks like the company produced potted fish and anchovy paste, amongst others. I imagine other similar moulds were made for customers, with personalisation.

    http://www.thebottledump.co.uk/potlids/potlidhtml/17-harrypecks.html

    and a big oops! by the company:
    http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/41702/2/65002210.txt
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on May 28, 2014, 07:25:56 AM
    thanks for the links David - very interesting - and might suggest that this one could have an age possibly in excess of 100 years.         Older - i.e. antique - ceramic jelly moulds I see quite commonly, usually in some sort of whitish or cream colour, but the vast majority of clear glass examples certainly don't approach the one hundred mark.

    I wonder how we find out who made Peck's moulds?

    The Victorians were past masters at the adulteration of foodstuffs, and judging by your link it appears to have continued into the Edwardian era and beyond.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on May 28, 2014, 01:47:10 PM
    Can't help you with the mould/glass maker, but the style is very much like the  Davidson catalogue link (p.23) (http://www.cmog.org/library/davidsons-patent-primrose-blue-pearline?search=library_collection%3Abb1e9deb68aef06f0d2055b86fa831bd&page=0) that Christine provided earlier. I'm not sure of the date of the Davidson catalogue (Pearline is present) but this would be over 100 years old, so perhaps a Davidson mould?
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 29, 2014, 07:35:39 PM
    More jelly. Half pint and marked 0 BRITISH GLASS
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on August 20, 2014, 01:16:02 PM
    Reg. No. 781610 by Bailey (W M?), dated 17/03/1933

    Probably for brawn rather than jelly, as the embossed design is on the outside so no impression would be left in the food stuff. The reg. no. is on the top of the mould, along with what might be a pattern number: R-7410
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Lustrousstone on August 20, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
    See also http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54315.0.html for No. 781610

    (PS it is the very same mould. Will it understand the Brummy accent?)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on August 20, 2014, 10:08:57 PM
    It's Brummie where I come from  ;)

    But I think consolidating all the jelly mould threads is a good idea.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on August 21, 2014, 09:16:47 AM
    I suppose it's the gelatine that makes that happen ?? ;) ;)

    I recall there are some jelly mould designs in the Kew archives from around the middle of the C19 - and if I get the time I'll add them to this thread.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: mhgcgolfclub on August 21, 2014, 07:35:33 PM
    Lushus jelly mould marked on the base BRITISH MADE LUSHUS MOULD RD791304

    Roy
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on August 21, 2014, 08:32:54 PM
    not in the Blue Book - perhaps another CLASS IV Registration  .....   I'll have a look in the Kew records some time.
    Would have been allocated in March 1934.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on August 21, 2014, 09:37:39 PM
    A google search (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22lushus%22+jelly+mould&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0mP2U_b9DeOn0QWw2oHgAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1240&bih=920#q=%2B%22lushus%22+%22jelly+mould%22&tbm=isch&imgdii=_) reveals another style marked Lushus and I see this is currently on eBay. Possibly related to the US company making jellies under this tradename?
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on September 04, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
    Of course this one may not be British, so it can be moved if thought best.             I wondered if the Star of David (in relief on the bottom of the inside) might indicate some connection with Roy's LUSHUS mould which has a similar motif in the shape of the mould, but only guessing and probably unrelated entirely.
    No other marks or words at all, and about 5.5" (140 mm) in diameter, with some wear but not very old I don't think.
    Presumably these things are pressed in one piece moulds ??  -  certainly can't find any seams.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: agincourt17 on October 14, 2014, 03:34:32 PM
    Here is a very rare jelly mould in black glass by Greener & Co., RD 38582, design registered on 23 November 1885. Measures 13.5 x 10 x 7cm.

    (Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by Kevin Collins).

    Jenny Thompson (page 15) gives the design description as ‘Shape for a glass mould’.

    I know of no other image of this mould – does anyone have pix to show of the mould in other colours, please?

    Fred.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on October 22, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
    Bernard has already mentioned this 'anchor and rope' mould, although not sure that there is a picture in this thread  -  but apologies if I am doubling up.                 No marks or other identifying details that I can see, and about 5.3/8" (135 mm) long, so possibly a half pint or a little less.       Some noticeable wear - might the design indicate this having originated possibly somewhere in the 1939 - 45 period?

    Do we have a manufacturers name for this particular design does anyone know?     I did bang anchor and rope jelly mould into the Board's search, but nothing to assist that I could see.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on October 22, 2014, 02:42:17 PM
    Probably Leerdam, according to Patricia. Ivo might be able to back this up.

    Edit: Forgot the Ivo had already confirmed this on the first page of this thread:
    http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56215.msg321712.html#msg321712

    Rope and Anchor might be a better search term, BTW!  :D
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on October 22, 2014, 03:20:45 PM
    sorry - too much rushing this afternoon and hadn't seen Ivo's comments - thanks.

    Sounds more like a pub........ ;)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on October 26, 2014, 02:34:42 PM
    this one shows the word LIPTON inset between the six bobbles on the base - the word also occurs, evenly spaced, four times around the underside of the bottom ledge.

    Not one I've seen before, and judging by the wear this could possibly be an example from between the wars  -  something like 5.5" (140 mm) long - although a very traditional shape.

    Haven't a clue who might have made this  -  although seems obviously to have been sold by the British Lipton grocery chain that stared in the second half of the C19  -  it seems their famous tea of the same name was still going up until very recent times  -  and might still be, but don't recall seeing any shops for a long time.       A form of advertising.

    As a teenager I worked in one of their shops as my Saturday job for pocket money, and for that one day's work I was paid nineteen shilling and sixpence - a tad under one pound :o :)
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Lustrousstone on October 26, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
    The Lipton tea brand is still going strong, though owned by Unilever, here and in Europe and the USA
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 07, 2015, 01:40:40 PM
    This one is definitely British, as it says British Make
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on July 07, 2015, 01:56:18 PM
    Thanks, that's one of the two that could be by Chance (see Chance Additions, p.39). My only concern is the mark: MADE (not MAKE) appears to be preferred by Chance.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on May 24, 2017, 01:09:41 PM
    sorry to dig this one up again  ..............     unexciting I know, but another jelly/blancmange related directly to the Wm. A. Bailey Registration No. 547034 posted by Fred, in reply No. 8, back on 21st May 2014.     I doubt that this particular mould was pressed as far back as 1909, and unlike Fred's more shallow and oval shape, this one is taller and circular.
    Fred's example carried the factory pattern No. 7317, and this one appears to be 7323 - probably just two out of a substantial series of pattern Nos., which may have covered the company's entire range of kitchenalia items - and since this one is a slightly later No. then perhaps a design made subsequent to 7317.               Will and try to find the original drawing for this Reg. when next at Kew.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: keith on May 24, 2017, 02:32:46 PM
    I prefer blancmange but was hoping this was by Chance Bros  ::) ;D ;D
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on May 24, 2017, 03:31:57 PM
    good piece Keith but regret I've no idea whether you're right or not  -  the only thing I can say is that I believe those words are typical of 1940s - 1950s manufacturing style.
    If a particular design is documented somewhere or, of course, if the item carries a Reg. No., then we can pin it down quite easily  -  otherwise probably a nonstarter as to origin.

    I've not had blancmange for eons - my mother used to make the pink stuff, which presumably not all bad for you since it contained a fair amount of milk  .............    so looking for someone to make some for both Keith and myself, please.     Offers on a postcard to .......    ;) ;D ;D
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: Paul S. on July 10, 2017, 02:49:29 PM
    rather obvious I suppose - the fact that the original drawing at Kew looks exactly as you'd expect it to look     ......  but just for the sake of completeness ..........................
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: agincourt17 on July 10, 2017, 04:11:16 PM
    Paul, thank you for showing the drawing for RD 547034.

    I will add it the GMB RD database in due course.

    Fred.
    Title: Re: Glass Jelly Moulds - British Made - Who, What, Where, When?
    Post by: David E on October 02, 2017, 01:17:24 PM
    Quote from: David E on July 07, 2015, 01:56:18 PM
    Thanks, that's one of the two that could be by Chance (see Chance Additions, p.39). My only concern is the mark: MADE (not MAKE) appears to be preferred by Chance.
    I'd like to correct myself here as Chance appears to have used both MADE and MAKE.

    W. A. Bailey - According to GracesGuide.co.uk:
    Quote
    1919 William Asbury Bailey established the Rockware Glass Syndicate Ltd to manufacture glass containers at a factory established for the purpose in Greenford in 1920

    The only Greenford I can find is a suburb of London, but plants appear to be mainly situated in the north of England: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Rockware_Glass