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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on March 28, 2014, 12:41:10 PM

Title: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures - ID = Okra
Post by: glassobsessed on March 28, 2014, 12:41:10 PM
Well they were sold as fake and as far as I can tell the signatures are suspect.

Some Loetz marks, more on the second page: http://users.skynet.be/fa000612/identifying.htm

So I guess I have two questions, firstly are those signatures dodgy? If so that leads to the second question, who made the vases? Okra on a bad day? Could they be American?

John

Whoops, heights are 17cm and 20cm, glass is quite thick.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 28, 2014, 12:52:35 PM
And what's wrong with Okra? I remember some of these being sold by Fieldings as exactly what they were signed. Okra never put the signatures on there.  www.abfabglass.co.uk
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on March 28, 2014, 12:57:43 PM
Where did I say there was anything wrong with Okra and for that matter where did I imply that they may have been signed this way by Okra?
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 28, 2014, 01:16:08 PM
Okra on a bad day?
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on March 28, 2014, 05:08:08 PM
Exactly, not the finesse and quality I would have expected from Okra.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 28, 2014, 05:15:51 PM
Well for your information they were Okra and very early ones when Richard was still experimenting.
So on a good day rather than a bad one.

 www.abfabglass.co.uk

Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on March 28, 2014, 05:39:45 PM
That explains the the thickness of the glass and the odd imperfection. For your information thanks.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 28, 2014, 05:49:25 PM
Somebody dodgy must have put the writing on...
Okra isn't to everybody's taste.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 28, 2014, 06:59:27 PM
It may not be to every bodies taste that I can happily accept and understand but its not for them to speak or use their name in derogatory terms or any other studio come to that and so far they haven't had the good grace to apologise.
www.abfabglass.co.uk
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 28, 2014, 07:12:44 PM
John and I are both very forgiving of the lack of finesse in early work by great artists, that does not mean we can't see it lacks the finesse which is eventually gained over the years. He has nothing to apologise for.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 28, 2014, 07:38:12 PM
He has everything to apologise for.
www.abfabglass.co.uk
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: chriscooper on March 29, 2014, 09:48:57 AM
A couple of Pagoda style perfumes top quality and clearly marked Okra and dated 1985 WLPSB which I learnt from Station Glass stands for White Looped Pagoda Scent Bottle. Nothing to add to the post just thought they were gorgeous  :)
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on March 29, 2014, 11:52:38 AM
Very nice. www.abfabglass.co.uk
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on September 23, 2014, 05:15:57 PM
He has everything to apologise for.
www.abfabglass.co.uk

Utter rubbish, if you wish to misinterpret what I wrote that is your choice. What a pity it is that you do not understand idiom.

John
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: scimiman on September 23, 2014, 10:43:36 PM
Utter rubbish, if you wish to misinterpret what I wrote that is your choice. What a pity it is that you do not understand idiom.

John

Took you a long time to come up with that one.

noun
1.
an expression whose meaning is not predictable from the usual meanings of its constituent elements, as kick the bucket or hang one's head, or from the general grammatical rules of a language, as the table round for the round table, and that is not a constituent of a larger expression of like characteristics.
2.
a language, dialect, or style of speaking peculiar to a people.
3.
a construction or expression of one language whose parts correspond to elements in another language but whose total structure or meaning is not matched in the same way in the second language.
4.
the peculiar character or genius of a language.
5.
a distinct style or character, in music, art, etc.:
the idiom of Bach.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on September 28, 2021, 10:54:08 AM
Another Okra vase on a foot with the same shape but here made with chalcedony glass, marked with Mr Goldings initials and dated 1982.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: flying free on September 28, 2021, 11:10:52 AM
ooh that's rather lovely! 

I like the shape because of the cylindrical foot which makes it.  Love the decor - it's beautiful.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 28, 2021, 12:42:16 PM
 ;) As you may be able to see, the pontil mark is not fully polished.
It is oval, a bit gouged and has a satin finish.  ;D
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: glassobsessed on September 28, 2021, 03:40:04 PM
The second vase in this shape does help firm up the attribution to Okra, the date too. I had the Loetz signatures on the original vases polished out, the vase with the foot got smashed at the time, gravity, concrete floors and glass are unhappy bedfellows...

Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: chopin-liszt on September 28, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
It does indeed. I had forgotten this thread and that shape. As soon as you flagged it up and I saw them again and thought of the chalcedony piece immediately.
As usual, you got there before me.  ;D
I think you were right to get the fake mark removed. Sorry to hear it ended up ruining the vase, but it was deliberately "damaged" by the marking first.
Title: Re: Iridescent vases with blue ground and fake Loetz signatures
Post by: NevB on September 28, 2021, 08:48:08 PM
Just to add, it's a bit of a giveaway that the signature is spelled "Löetz". It should be either "Lötz" with the umlaut or the alternative spelling "Loetz".