Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Roger H on April 14, 2014, 09:56:11 AM
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Hi all, can anyone identify this cane maker with rather an unusual T shape at the ends of the star points?
I do know exactly who made the weight but we need to be a bit lighter in our research sometimes to make life enjoyable.
Regards Roger.
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Can I play? ;D
Nick
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Hi Roger
I think the 'T' arises from over-enthusiastic marvering, before the final white layer is added. There are many, many shapes in canes that arise by accident, but are subsequently described in the most fanciful ways by collectors!
As for this example, it has an air of Harland Ysart about it...
Alan
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I believe Alan is correct.
The cane in question is known as a Paul Ysart cane. The weight is very probably one of the variations of the basic "Mili Fiori" design, (sometimes with a central complex cane including an H centre) as shown in advertising leaflets from the 1970s.
Do I win half the prize for providing the extra info???
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Sorry Nick you are not allowed to give your honest opinion as I know you will be correct. Yes I still find this an exquisite weight, thank you.
Roger the dodger.
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Yes Alan the marvering working out is a good explanation of the T shape.
Rogeeeeeeer ( oops too much marvering)
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Hi Kev, thats pretty good working out. I believe you have done this investigative work before.
Another cane to keep you awake.
Roger rascal
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Here's the whole weight with an "H" cane of course and I love it, thank you.
You may have part of the prize each, its free vitamin "D" for a healthier life, just walk about in the sunshine tomorrow.
Regards Roger
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That's a good example of the design.
But you now need one with the large central complex cane which also has a "py" signature in the centre. :)
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Hi Roger
Have you ever managed to count all the elements in the centre, I think I got to about 170 and lost count.
Nick
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The elements in the "multi-cane complex cane" varies. And the number of canes in each element is also variable. For example, a final cane could have, say, 16 elements and maybe 8 of those elements would have 14 individual canes, while 3 other elements provide 24 canes each and the remaining elements give 19 canes. That would be 279 individual canes.
The only example I have is in the weight illustrated in Bob Hall's Scottish Paperweights book, top of page 127. (I bought it directly from the previous owner.) The complex cane was described in the book as having "no less than 200 individual cogs and tubes". It actually has something like the 279 I gave in the hypothetical example above, plus 1 for the "py" cane!
I really must count them properly one day. ;D
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Hi Kev, I see you have yellow and white spiral cane base of a 3 inch diameter, mine is a 2.8 inch diameter. They are both weights of the utmost professionalism aren't they.
If you feel you have a couple of hours to spare have a count, I assume you are only going to count the setup canes not the individual canes or 2 days would be better.
Regards Roger.
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Nick,thanks for the weight. I can get to 200 ish but haven't got a camera that will magnify and focus nearer to be able to expand and segment off the photo.
Regards Roger.
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The images below show:
1. the full complex cane from my weight
2. the apparently similar elements around the "py" cane, which themselves are complex canes
3. a count of all the canes
The count covers "simple canes" - but not the parts (central rod, star etc.) that were used to make those. I have checked the outer edge of the full cane and I am happy that all of the "simple canes" are visible (although perhaps not very clear) in Image 1.
Image 2. is an "exploded" view of the "py" cane with the five "complex cane" elements surrounding it. Those five elements can be seen fairly easily in image 1. because the edges are reasonably visible. The outer canes are formed from similar complex elements but are compacted more tightly and are not easily visible by outline. However, it is very likely that there are 10, 11 or 12 such elements in the outer part of the full cane.
As shown in Image 2. the elements, by form and colour, appear at first glance to be much the same. There are some identical "simple canes" that make up these five complex elements. However, even allowing for slippage or loss from view of some of the "simple canes", or even inversion of the complex element, close scrutiny shows each element to be different!
The count analysis shown in Image 3. gives a total of 276 "simple canes" together with the "py" cane making 277, which I think is quite close to my earlier estimate. (smiles smugly) :D
Edited to add: Can you spot the error in Image 2. !! ::)
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Hi Kevin. Your arithmetic for the one cane would be correct in base 11....but would not match the cane ;)
Alan
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Differening? is that a new word.
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Definition:
Differening = The process of occasionally using base 11 arithmetic to incorrectly calculate the total elements within geometric patterns.
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Now that sounds like a very useful symbolic solution ;D Danke schone, sehr gut, ich verstehen sie ein wenig. I intend to work on making paperweights in the future but to get to the workmanship of these weights will take me another 200 years. I'll show you when I have finished one.
Regards Roger