Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on April 21, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
-
As is always the way, when I have a choice of buying something perfect, beautiful, but the same colour as something I already have, or something damaged, interesting, satin glass, then obviously I buy the damaged item ;D
Can't show it as it hasn't arrived yet but in the book The Crystal Years on page 51, it shows an enamelled Stevens and Williams decanter with a hunt scene on it and for the stopper, a frosted clear satin glass fox's head. I don't believe this is original to the decanter as I've seen that decanter with what I believe to be it's correct stopper.
So where did the fox's head stopper originate? where was it made and if it's not Stevens and Williams why was it appropriate to include it in the picture in the book?
This is a similar one in blue frosted glass where the face (but not the neck/bottom of the face) appears to be the same mold as far as can be seen although admittedly difficult to tell. I believe this one is different on the bottom of the face/neck because it wasn't a stopper originally, where the one in the book I think was made as a stopper.
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/east-bristol-auctions/catalogue-id-2884956/lot-18618294
I have done much searching on this, and ummed and aahed about buying the piece I've bought for weeks, and finally caved in - it was just one of 'those' pieces for me ;D
Any help much appreciated :)
m
-
The decanter or one the same design is shown on page 115 of CH's 20th Century British Glass with it's correct stopper (not the one in The Crystal Years).
m
-
Is the saleroom one the same as this - completed listings on ebay - Unusual Vintage Glass Stirrup Cup with Frosted Glass Fox’s Head
Roberta
-
no but that's what I think it was :)
-
oh sorry, I see what you mean :) no it's not the same piece, but yes I believe they are from the same mold. I misread what you wrote :)
m
-
He has arrived.
The first picture is the best I could get on the angle as a comparison to the stopper in The Crystal Years. I believe they are from the same mold design. The stopper is made as a stopper (and appears to be complete with stopper bottom etc in the book) and this is made to attach to the stirrup cup which is why I think there is a slight difference in the bottom of the face and the neck - i.e. the stopper is more squat, whereas the neck on my fox is a bit more elongated. In all other respects I believe they are the same.
It's a curious piece. Rings like a bell, the glass of the cup is fine, fairly thin and I don't believe new, I think old but not ancient lol. The fox is massively heavy and solid. He weighs 400grams or just under 1lb and the fox head is only 2 1/4" by 3"by 2" - the whole piece is 6" high.
He has hair texture but also has some curious grinding on the top of his head and shaping the ears, I believe original finishing and I think it's the same on the stopper in the book. The finish is iridescent satin finish. He must have been poured into a mold? There are faint mold lines (about 6 or so) and the mold looks as though it was complex to me. But I know nothing :)
The curious grinding/polishing on the top of the head looks kind of as though a pontil rod has been removed but I don't think it can be. Can it be where it was difficult to remove from the mold, and the same on the stopper then? It also has an odd 'L' mark next to that grinding patch,no other mark like this on it at all. The ears also have this finish on them as though to shape them although you can see faint mold lines.
He has an iridescent type finish but his eyes are polished shiny - I think the ones in the book are as well.
The ring around his neck is also iridescent finish but clear glass. The cup is attached to this and then the head is attached at the other side iyswim?
Any thoughts? Could it be Stevens and Williams? the one in the book is clear satin glass, this one is what I would call sapphire blue or sky blue maybe?
m
-
pics
-
sorry battery dead - the rim is firepolished.
I can feel in the bottom of the cup that it indents into the cup slightly where the fox has been attached and pushed the glass in. It's completely smooth though.
I'm just wondering whether it's possible it was gathered on a pontil rod and then dipped into a mold? might that account for what looks like a pontil mark finish on the top of the head? and then for it to be finished off it was ground in that way to replicate the texture on the mold then iridised over the top of the whole thing and neck ring/merese once it was joined to the cup?
Is this the kind of technique that would have been done at S&W?
btw this one that I linked to earlier was also, I think, a stirrup cup not a stopper.
http://lot-images.atgmedia.com/SR/36355/2884956/813-201375204843_468x382.jpg
m
-
Great snout!
-
Thanks ;D yes, he's rather gorgeous.
-
he apparently came in grass green as a stirrup cup as well
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2233432_a-plated-fox-head-stirrup-cup-and-a-glass-stirrup
Sold 27July 2006 Gorringes
He's an incredible work of art - very very heavy.
Has what I do think is a small raised L carefully impressed above his eyebrow. I don't think it's an error or part of the mould as it's not like any other marking on the glass.
It's kind of like pate de verre almost.
Like this pate de verre hat pin:
http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2693B/lots/236
In fact close up he does indeed look like that hatpin!
But would think with the mould marks left on it that it must be mould made somehow. And what are all those grinding or carving marks on the top of his head?
m
-
I think the hound is a Borzoi btw.
The head on the fox appears to be made of blue glass as it's core of the head and then the snout and ears are clear I think although it all reflects as blue.
It must be pate de verre I think if that is the case? or some technique similar?
m
-
I think its a push between your choice & a Greyhound.
-
you may be right in fact as the ears are higher on the head on a greyhound than a Borzoi.
I saw lilac and gold and immediately thought Borzoi, but yes quite possibly greyhound instead :)
And perhaps lilac for a grey greyhound , mmm. A lovely hatpin. Thanks.
Just noted my fox has a frosted merese collar between it and the clear glass cup, whereas the green one has a polished glass collar.
m
-
pic of fox angled for comparison to greyhound stick pin here
stick pin link
http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2693B/lots/236
There also appears to be a small lozenge at the bottom of the head where it joins the glass.
Pic attached - it's oval and between three and four o'clock inside the circle of the merese. Pic taken from inside the glass viewed down to the bottom where the bottom of the head would be
m
-
I don't even want to ask this question for fear of being laughed at :-[ but I don't suppose this head could have been made by Lalique could it?
So far it comes in this blue (mine plus one broken one), a green (Lalique also did green)
https://rlalique.com/rene-lalique-flacon-pendant-5941
and a frosted version, which is in the Stevens and Williams book propped in a decanter painted with a hunt scene ( I've seen subsequently a decanter from that range but different hunt picture painted on it, in Charles Hajdamach's British Glass book with a normal mushroom domed stopper in it (it's a different decanter so that doesn't mean the fox stopper isn't S&W)
Mine has polished shiny eyes in the matt body. Lalique appears to have polished the eyes of their satin pieces? Is there another maker who might have made these foxes and polished the eyes?
The frosted one is in the book, the green was sold many years ago, and the blue was badly broken but I believe still a stirrup cup. Then there's mine. So it's fairly unusual. So I was wondering whether it might be quite early (early compared to nowadays I mean) The hunt decanter dates to around 1935. The book with the frosted clear version in dates to 1983 so it is at least earlier than that. I know... an absolute long shot ;D
m
-
The owner of this etched glass version thought it was 19th century?
The fox is different to mine but is from a mould and the pic 3 appears to possibly show evidence of the strange cutting patterns shown on the top of my fox.
I've no idea of etching or engraving whatsoever.
Would anyone know if this looks like a 19th century engraving please?
http://bid.igavelauctions.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2835110
thanks
m
-
This might be the link I needed :)
This one here as in my post above is a different fox and is engraved, however it is still a frosted fox on a very similar style stirrup cup
to mine (mine is not engraved)
http://bid.igavelauctions.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2835110
My fox shape but in uncoloured frosted glass (rather than my blue glass) appears as a 'stopper' in a decanter in the Stevens and williams book The Crystal Years. I'm not sure if it is a stopper or if it is the broken head of the fox set in the top of the decanter.
This hunt cup here is a strongly possible candidate for a Stevens and Williams glass as they did a range with opaque lampworked figures set into their stems in the 1930s (discussion has been on this board before and I have owned a number of these pieces). The caveat is that the shape of this glass stem/foot is different to those I owned I think. But I'll try and find some pics to compare in a minute.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/17998068_a-glass-rummer-with-engraved-hunting-scene-to-the-bowl
And that glass is engraved with a hunt scene, as the stirrup cup is engraved with a hunt scene.
The other caveat is that the engraving on the stirrup up with the frosted fox (similar shape bowl to mine but different fox mould) is less sophisticated/more crude than the engraving on this hunting scene glass with inset in stem though.
However, if the glass rummer is a Stevens and Williams glass then they did engrave some of their glasses in their 'hunt' range, and so it is possible that they engraved the stirrup cup with fox head and therefore may have made the fox head cup and indeed the 'stopper' in the Stevens and Williams book.
Obviously bearing in mind the two caveats of that it might not be a Stevens and Williams glass and that the engraving on the Stirrup cup like mine appears to me to be less sophisticated than that on the rummer.
m
-
mm, mine are on this thread as are the glasses that Mike M posted.
They do not look the same shape as the engraved goblet with lampworked stem.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43098.msg240681.html#msg240681
m
-
progress at last!
This decanter is a cut glass horseshoe shaped decanter with an engraved scene. The one in the Stevens and Williams book is a cut glass horseshoe shaped decanter (same shape) and similar design but the cutting is different and the panel is enamelled one the one in the book.
Both contain the frosted plain glass fox head stopper!!
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/andrew-smith-and-son/catalogue-id-srandr10022/lot-7639ee4e-1e6e-4dce-8e2b-a43c0174e4e8
Click on the picture for it to come up in the correct shape :)
So ... do we tentatively conclude that since one is in the book as Stevens and Williams with the artist specified, and that they are both the same shape though different cutting and one is engraved instead of enamelled, and that both contain the frosted fox head stopper, that the frosted fox head stopper is likely to be from Stevens and Williams? Therefore if my blue frosted fox head on my stirrup cup is the same design fox head, then it is likely that the stirrup cup might be Stevens and Williams and the fox head made by them? This is made more likely because the design of the stirrup cup and the feel of the glass is very much in the vein of other STevens and Williams pieces I've owned (goblets with horses in stems) and alabaster pieces.
The book appears to describe the picture in the text as ' In the works museum a "horseshoe" whisky bottle survives, with... ' It goes on to say
it is partnered by a goblet with a similar picture.
So I think it is reasonable to conclude that the fox head was made by someone at Stevens and Williams. There are two known stopper both in clear frosted, one broken blue one described as a stopper but I think it actually came off a stirrup cup, and my blue stirrup cup fox, as well as one grass green fox on a stirrup cup that I think is probably the same shape (bad photo).
So ... who made the fox at Stevens and Williams? how is it made? is it pate de verre? or is it cast somehow? It's massively heavy.
The only spanner in the works is this
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56463.msg320124.html#msg320124
Charles Hajdamach shows in 20th Century British Glass page 115 the same cut decanter as the one in the Crystal Years, with an enamelled panel on the front but a different enamelled picture to the one in the Crystal Years (same theme/style etc though) with a stopper that appears to be cut to match the decanter.
Were the ones with the fox stopper specials?
m
-
see above long post re matching fox and decanter.
Just thought of something. If these were cast or pate de verre (unlikely) or whatever, then is it likely they were 'glued' to the base, the base being either a stopper post or a stirrup cup?
Can they have been attached as they were both hot? no? surely not? I'm really curious now as to who made them. I've never seen anything like this from S&W before. The green one is curious as well - is it S& W alabaster glass? It does have a very similar colour green to an alabaster glass pot I own. But the blue and frosted seem completely different kind of glass by comparison although it might just be the lighting on the green one making it look quite opaque
m
-
It is a Stevens and Williams fox.
Possibly by John Northwood(the way the paragraph and section is written makes it difficult to tell). Presumably referring John Northwood II although it's not specified in the book.
Source: The Crystal Years by R.S. Williams-Thomas
page 64 and 65
'Leaving small lamp made items and turning our thoughts to animals and birds, we find that John Northwood devotes a page of illustrations in his book to birds and fish, which had been 'still' blown into beautiful details moulds, showing feathers and scales which were subsequently emphasised with the intaglio wheel. Such creatures were chiefly supplied to silversmiths for mounting.
Solid stoppers for spirit decanters were also made in the form
of hounds' heads and foxes' masks.
Lastly there are the little "friggers" made by glassmakers fr their own trading, for visitors and sometimes for sale by the company. These included ....'
m