Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Leni on May 24, 2006, 09:20:05 AM
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I thought this might be a Baccarat, but it's not my usual style, so I'm not 100% sure. The left hand spiral of the latticcinio (I never remember the right way to spell it :oops: :roll: ) made me think so. (Ray thinks so, too :wink: ) http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2070
Base http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2048
What's the concensus of opinion? :?
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I'm not sure of this one. It could also be a very old Murano.
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My guess is Chinese, based on that shade of yellow, the yelllow-and-red cane group near, but not in, the centre, and the finish to the base.
Latticino and Latticinio each have just one "c" :)
Something to be aware of when considering twist canes is that when looking at images in printed material, sometimes the photos are inverted (because the slide originals were set the wrong way round) and so the direction of the twist may appear at odds with the description.
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That's what I was afraid of Kev, as soon as I actually saw it 'in the glass' :( The base finish is very Chinese-looking and the glass is a bit bubbly and 'cloudy' under the loupe. Oh dear, and I was hoping to make a profit on it :( At least I didn't pay that much! :roll: :oops:
It's actually a very clever copy though, and the latticino canes (which do indeed twist to the left) are for the most part surprisingly well made! :shock:
Any idea what age? I'd have said it definitely isn't new :?
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Profile is very strange though, saw it on eBay, might be an idea to add one to the gallery.
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OK pic of profile http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2050
What do you think is strange about it, Frank? :?
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Without a doubt, it's China-made. But the finished-off colorful basket stave style is interesting. Reminds me of some Bohemia-made weights. Perhaps, Bohemian weights were also brought to China, along with French weights, to be copied.
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Looks a bit like somebody sat on it while hot, still a gorgeous weight,
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If it would have any aventurine, it's very like the older Muranos, which are also quite squat.
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Hi Leni,
I think this is an early chinese end of day / macedoine weight.
In Larry Selmans Book "Paperweights for Collectors" on Page 126 Fig 259. Nr.7 you can see a similar weight wich has also a "Made in China" signature plaque.
The Latticinio twists in this weight seems to be identical to the ones in your weight and also the flower canes look like the ones in your weight.
Baccarat weights of this design are mostly a little bit darker then the usual known end of day weights. I look out for a picture and post it later, when i will find it.
All the best
Nadine
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Here is the picture from the Baccarat weight in this style:
http://www.paperweights24.de/bilder/baccarat.jpg
As you can see, the latticinios are very different to your weight, and there are no flower canes etc.
It seems, the chinese glassworkers did not only copy the pansy and some nosegays from clichy, they also had their own idea from a macedoine weight :-)
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Thanks to everyone for the comments. :D I think this weight is definitely Chinese, but older. The puzzling thing is that the latticino canes and twists are very, very good! Much better than the encasing! :shock: Someone in China was very good indeed at copying the Baccarat canes, but let down by whoever made the final weight.
Also, perhaps the addition of the flower cane was a way of indicating that this was Chinese, thus 'protecting' the maker from accusations of faking, as that is the one thing which should have told me straight away that it wasn't a genuine Baccarat! :oops: :roll:
Does anyone have an idea of the date? The story I heard was that this copying of antique weights was started in the 1930's, but I have also heard that it continued until the '60's :? I do have an older Chinese millefiori weight and, although the canes are quite good, the encasing glass, while relatively free from bubbles and frit, is the yellowish, poor quality glass frequently associated with the older Chinese weights. This 'fake Baccarat' weight is encased in a 'whiter' glass, although it is still not as good as the modern Chinese glass, some of which is virtually indistinguishable from glass made anywhere else!
Well, I think this is an interesting weight, even though it's not worth repolishing, and I shall just add it to my collection. It's clearly not going to be sold on at a profit, but that's not what I do anyway, is it? :wink: :roll: :lol:
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Just for interest, here's another one, which the seller has been told may be Ysart ... hence the price, I suppose!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAPERWEIGHT-I-CALL-IT-SCRAMBLES-8_W0QQitemZ7302302614QQcategoryZ2744QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Hi Leni,
I think your weight was made between 1910 and 1930.
Best wishes
Nadine
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The canes in this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAPERWEIGHT-I-CALL-IT-SCRAMBLES-8_W0QQitemZ7302302614QQcategoryZ2744QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
ebay listing are also vintage Chi circa the 1930s. No Ysart there.
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I think your weight was made between 1910 and 1930.
Thanks, Nadine :D
As ever, I wonder what happened to the talented Chinese glassworkers who produced the twists and canes and millefiori which were in those early copies of antique French weights :? Presumably their work didn't 'fit' the Chinese ethic of mass-production, quantity not quality, and the distortion of the communist ideal, which denies the recognition of individual talent! :(
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Perhaps this will assist others in knowing the look of the classic 19th-century Baccarat scramble or macedoine. The differences between the true French-made Baccarat scramble and the lesser quality China-made imitation are striking; from the colors, to the rigid angles of the latticino and ribbons, to the carefully curved base with its frosted ring.
http://i4.tinypic.com/10q9ysn.jpg
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And other examples of 19th c French scrambled weights can be seen in the PCC (formerly CPC) 1999 Exhibtion pages:
A Baccarat:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/Baccarat/BacScrambled21.htm
A St Louis:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/StLouis/SLScramble22.htm
Another St Louis:
http://www.kevh.clara.co.uk/exhib99/Antique/French/StLouis/SLScramble19.htm
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I've edited the picture of my 'Chinese Baccarat' weight to make it clearer.
Thanbks, Kev. I looked at all those and still 'fell for it' :oops: :roll:
(But so did Ray! :shock: )
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Another "typically" antique Baccarat, which I´ve sold last week:
http://www.paperweights24.de/bilder/baccaratmacedoineantik/index.html