Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: kjsammy on June 27, 2014, 09:31:06 PM
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I would appreciate any info on this large, heavy, glass elephant. Measures nearly 13 inches to top of head, almost 16 to top of trunk. There are not any marks or labels. I doubt it is made in China. Murano a possibly? Any other possibilities?
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Well if it's any consolation people are at least looking! It is unusually large - even for an elephant. No idea where it's from though... Murano is mostly a mystery to me but unhelpfully, Chinese glass can pop up anywhere in the UK (I've noticed you are in USA). Where did you find it?
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It was found at an estate sale and I was told it was 'early glass, probably pairpoint'. Of course, a lot of older glass in the US is not marked. I am sure I paid too much but it is wonderful looking, much better in person. My pictures of it do not come out very well. There are tusks, wrinkles or folds in the ears, the end of the trunk is especially accurate, with 'fingers'. It is so heavy, not hollow. Oh, I don't think pairpoint made anything like that huge elephant. Could it be Chinese? If anyone has easy suggestions of how to take better pictures of clear glass with a point and shoot let me know. Thank you Mr. Turnip.
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Have a look at this Ellie, Kjsammy, it is Murano Glass by Loredano Rosin glass factory and has very many features that your ellie has. It looks as though yours has bullicante, but this one does not. However other features such as the ears, trunk, tail and stand are very similar.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/312573-magele/Murano-Art-Glass-Elephant-Sculpture
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Amazing Rosieposie. They are from the same maker! Thank you! I googled until I felt it futile and never found that elephant on rubylane. On the other hand, before the internet, I never would have found an answer :). Fantastic :D
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kjsammy, I did some looking for information about your elephant and Loredano, but couldn't come up with anything definite. I found some information on Loredano. I was surprised to see how sketchy it was. If the Ruby Lane elephant was from Loredano's factory in the late 1950s, it would have been Artvet. I got the feeling Loredano and his brother Mirko started Artvet in the late 1950-early 1960s. I looked around for things from Artvet, but didn't have much luck. I ran across a large fish signed "L. Rosin" on bottom. I remember seeing that fish on Fossilfly a while back. It looks like no one has reached a conclusion yet on it.
One word of caution -- I've learned to question people's memory of the history of an item. Sometimes the memories can be like a game of gossip, with the details changed a bit between people hearing the history. And sometimes the memories can be false. I've seen people selling glass they swore they bought in Venice in the 1950s and I know it is a contemporary piece from elsewhere. In the case of the elephant -- I know it is a good one, since I've seen a better photo of it than those here. The Ruby Lane information gives you a good direction for research, but there are over 50 years that the memory of the item could have changed. I hope you can verify it is right.
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I just checked Murano Magic and saw that Loredano and company founded Artvet in 1964. Before that Loredano worked for other people. If the Murano Magic dates are correct, the RL elephant data may be a bit off. But I also know things are not so black and white when it comes to Murano glass, so Loredano may have had a personal operation that is not recorded in the book.
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Thanks TxSilver. Yes, I understand that the objects are not signed, there is no label and the ruby lane description of "Venetian art glass collection bought in Italy during the late 1950's" is not really different than my being told it was early pairpoint.
I does seem that the same person would have made both elephants though, no? Is it likely that there are more large elephants? When making glass objects, would an artist do a couple, a few, many of the same thing?
There are large art glass objects by Loredano and Dino Rosin and they are sculptures (rather than a blown vase or bowl) so I guess that attribution is a possibility. Pairpoint is not.
Thank you for your information.
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I found a few more elephants and other animal (steinbok?) that were like this at LiveAuctioneers.com. They were called Murano, but none of them were attributed beyond that. None had labels. But at least we know there are a few of these out there.
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Here's one that has a label. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/12233803_art-glass-elephant-sculpture-made-in-mexico-appr
I have a picture of an elephant that is very similar to yours, but on a different base. The picture that I have (not mine, so I can't show here) has a label that reads "Cristales de Murano s.a., Hecho en Mexico."
So mystery solved. Made in Mexico.
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I agree with your research TxSilver. Thank you for taking the time.
Look what I found when I did some more googling:
http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=5399
There are many of these elephants. Made in Mexico.
"Venetian art glass collection bought in Italy" oh boy.
Maybe someone can change the ID in the header? Now it is solved.
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This is one of the reasons I don't trust people's "history" of an item without some kind of documentation. I had found the Mexican elephant in my file earlier, but since the base was different, I didn't know. I didn't want to hint it was Mexican, since many people won't buy Mexican. Why, I don't know. I like Mexican glass. It is a way some people are able to support themselves in a very tough country. I believe the label on my picture would be about 1970s, but it is just a guess.
The nice thing about Ruby Lane is if you find a mistake like this you can either write the merchant or flag the post. Ruby Lane takes it very seriously, so will take an item down if it is in error. (I wish eBay would do this.) I am writing the merchant about the correction.
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Cristales de Murano was in Monterey, Mexico. 0wned by the Garza family. I was there in 1974. They brought several maestroes in from Italy to train the Mexicans. As I recall the Italians had the last name Forlan or Forland and I think they were brothers. I remember seeing their name on a studio in Murano when I was there in 1991. I used to sell for a sister company of Cristales de Murano, i.e. Crsitales y Pantallas. many "Murano style" pieces were made by the 2 maestroes from Italy while in Mexico for about 2 years andthen by their Mexican students.
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I forgot to mention that most of Cristales de Murano was produced exclusively for the Mexican market. Abut the ony bit of their wares that reahed the US were items tat people went to the factory or purchased in Mexico and brought back as individuals. it was not commercialy imported into the US. I knew the Garza family well. They also had another company that made prisms for lamps and lighting but were under licensure from an Italian company and could only sell them in Mexico.
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Such good information. Were the brothers Furlan? They are a very talented family. Walter Furlan is the most widely known. His son Marcello does exquisite work.
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I had to come back to make a change. I am not sure Marcello is the son of Walter. I remember when I read about him that he was the son of a glass master, but it didn't say what the name of the father was. I was left wondering. It may actually be that they are brothers and are both the sons of a glass master. Maybe someone on here will know for sure. Information is sketchy about them.
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Gosh, so much information and so interesting. Could it be that these Ellies were made by these maestros both in Italy then in Mexico? I don't know. If the Ruby Link has confused the issue, I apologise, I can only show what I find on line and they are usually pretty reliable... and as Anita says, if shown to be incorrect they will always change the attribution and with good grace as well. :)
The labels for the fossilfly and liveauctioneers are different, so maybe the glass makers travelled around. Sad thay they are labelled and not signed... labels can be transferred, but most likely not in this case.
Whatever the answer, for certain this is a lovely piece of glass workmanship and maybe the name Foreland and Loredano have become muddled over the years? (They are not dissimilar.)
Certainly a nice display piece Ksjammy and one I hope you still feel happy to own.
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Good Morning,
Thank you, everyone, for all of the information. I will enjoy the elephant. This has been a learning experience.
Don't worry about the RL link at all Rosie. I understand completely and learned from you that using the word 'sculpture' in my searches led to different results.
The internet investigation has been fun and it is so nice that others are willing to contribute.
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Just for completeness, I thought you might like to see this frosted version that has recently ended on eBay, Unnamed, but clearly the same design.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Frosted-Satin-Art-Glass-Trumpeting-Elephant-Figurine-16-034-Tall-7-5-034-Wide-/191195151742?ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AGB%3A1120&ViewItem=&item=191195151742