Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: BobKegeles on August 06, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
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I'm having a debate with an Ebay seller, (yes I know this may qualify for the old adage, "never argue with an idiot, you won't win, and it simply lowers you to their level), but . . .
I feel very certain that these are Gentile, in fact based on the Morgantown Museum site photos, I'm thinking Gertrude Gentile specifically.
He of course, like so many ebayers, insist they are Murano.
While I know it's frowned on to post multiple pieces to a single thread, these are all the same maker for sure, so I figure it's okay.
I bought two @ $10 each the heart went for $28, higher than I would go. If I'm right, as Gentiles they'll sell for $25-$30. If he's correct, and they are Murano, they'll still prob. go for $25-$30. Honestly, from current experience, as properly identified Gentiles they will most likely sell faster.
He had 13 pieces listed, all identified as Murano, all (in my opinion) wrong. 2 had unfinished pontils, 1 was a classic Gertrude (butterfly with flower floating above bubbles),several were ice pick flowers, most likely American.
The funny thing that sellers don't seem to understand. If you properly identify a piece, (like a Gentile), it will usually sell higher than if you claim something is Murano, and it's clearly not. What seems to happen is Murano knowledgeable buyers, will simply ignor the listing, since they know it's wrong, yet collectors of Gentile (or other) won't see the listing because it doesn't come up in their searches.
Forgive the quality of the photos, I haven't received them yet, so am using his pictures.
[Mod: third party photos removed as per Board policy on copyright images]
As a secondary question, I once had a paperweight sight that had photos of huge numbers of pieces, Murano, as well as American, all listed alphabetically. The landing page features the alphabet, and if you clicked on A you got a page of artist starting with A (Ableman for example), or G (Gentile among others), M (Murano of course) etc. I've lost the link, does anyone know what site I'm describing? While Alan's Murano project has more Muranos, and identifies factories, this site had a more mixed database, especially of the American Mid West makers.
Thank you as always.
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Hi Bob,
Absolutely, they are all Gentile (in my opinion).
And I think the website you are referring to is:
http://verredart.atspace.com
SophieB
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Thank you muchly Sophie,
It's not the same website, though very similar. It could be that it's the same, but they've redesigned the graphics. It is perfect for what I was looking for, again thank you.
It is a bit funny, they're calling Gentile millefiori balls "spatter weights", and spatter weights they're calling "millefiori spatter weights" just a bit reversed. That doesn't lessen the usefulness, and in fact gives me a chuckle, and who doesn't need a chuckle.
Thanks also for backing up my belief that these are Gentiles.
Take great care.
I do give a shout out to GMB (including web addy) in listings where I've gotten help, and in fact I just routinely have it in my Murano millefiori, as well as most Scottish whether I've asked a question or not. It's just easier to remember when I simply keep it as part of those two categories templates.
Thanks again to all!
Bob
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Gentile Glass Works used Murano canes. As far as I know, they never made their own.
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Alan,
Interestingly enough, though I never heard that before about Gentile/Murano, I had figured it out it In fact I told someone else that I "thought" Gentile only used Murano canes, just a few days ago.
I guess I'm finally getting better at recognizing Murano canes.
Nice to have my impression verified though.
Bob
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The funny thing that sellers don't seem to understand.
'twas ever thus..
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Bob, you said:
Forgive the quality of the photos, I haven't received them yet, so am using his pictures.
Do you have the sellers' permission to use the photos here? If not, they will be removed as per the Board copyright policy.
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Gentile definitely used Murano canes that they purchased. I was at their factory in the 70's and remember them telling me they purchased these and did not make them. It's amazing how things travel the world and are used at all kinds of places. I also have 1000's of Murano slices that I use in jewelry I make at times. The Murano glass is normally a softer, meaning higher Coeffecient of Expansion, COE, than most of the soda lime normally used in the US, so it can be a challenge getting things to "fit" at times. Depending on the lead content of the glass and some other variables such as viscosity of the glass, some of them can be made to "fit". I sense that part of the reason that gentile's pieces tended to "weap" was the fact they made their glass to fit the Italian stuff and never put enough of some other ingredients in it to keep it from slowly decomposing. I saw other factories that did the same thing and saw an entire show room full of glass that was in this condition. Leave it in the air for a year and then rub your hand on it and your hand will smell like rotten eggs.
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Kevin, thanks for asking, and yes, please remove them. My apologies for the error in posting them.
Interesting question though, since I now own (but haven't received) the items, does that still mean I have no right to use the photos taken by someone else? Probably yes, sinceit's the actual photos in question, not the item being photographed.
Again, sorry.
Bob
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Add photos when you do get them and ask a moderator to put them at the beginning for you; that way the thread stays relevant
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Bob, thanks for the confirmation about the images. Yes, it is correct that even though you may own an item through purchase, original images still belong to the seller (or other photographer).
For images of items that you have not purchased, you could add links to the original web pages, but, given the dispute over attribution, it would probably be best to first ask the seller if they are happy with that.