Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Mr. Turnip on August 14, 2014, 04:17:29 PM
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Recently aqquired this weighty number - 3.9kg, it's 315mm tall. I really don't have much clue about it at all other than I took it upon myself to consider that it was Murano. It can't be very old as there is very little wear underneath considering its considerable weight. By the look of it someone has gone to the trouble of having a chip removed from the base - (see underside picture on the left, an area of polishing that's taken the roundness off the base slightly) unless that was done in the factory?. I can only think it must be quite difficult to make a vase like this. There is a glittery finish to the green and gold bits and the inside is cased white. Any opinions greatly appreciated.
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The glittery bits are aventurine of different types. Quite a sophisticated and complex piece that has been flipped through 90º at some point. Would have been expensive new.
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Thanks Frank, the word 'aventurene' has helped my Google searching a bit. The frightening thing is that the only vases I can find that are remotely similar to this in any way are either 1950s Murano (I don't think so), Kamei Osaka (I don't think so either) or... wait for it, the 'Ann Primrose Collection' - no, really. That would be the 'Ann Primrose Collection' that puts 'Murano' stickers on glass made in China. So can the Chinese make stuff like this difficult? I like the sound of 'sophisticated and complex' but I'm not so keen on the Ann Primrose idea...
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I would love to own this, as Frank says a quality piece, having spent four hours last night looking a Chinese mass produced glass, this does not look like that at all.
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The thing is, this type of vase is not something I've ever bought before - in fact apart from a passing resemblance to some Isle of Wight I've never seen anything like it. I have quite a few glass reference books but nothing much like this is apparent. It would appear to be a Murano technique - with the aventurene idea (I've so far been unable to work out what kind of 'aventurene' effect this actually is as there appear to be several different types) but beyond that I really haven't got any further. Here are a couple of close-up pics of the aventurene. Sparkly colours are in fact goldy/coppery, green and dark blue.
When I get stuck like this I either resort to thinking it might be Polish or Chinese! Are you sure the more expensive Ann Primrose vases (mostly available in the US - I've no idea what or who Ann Primrose is, other than what everyone else already knows) are not in this sort of league? Although the Ann Primrose vases I've found on ebay seem to have a matt finish (Ann Primrose aventurene 'feathers' vase) to the underside and are not quite a complex in structure as mine.
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I really like it, but I'm afraid I've thought it was good contemporary Chinese from the start. Now I've had a look at some of the ann primrose stuff, I'm even more sure.
But I would very happily give it house room. Beautiful glass is always beautiful glass, no matter who made it or where, or when, it was made. :)
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Well the only glittery ray of hope left for me now is that I'd have thought if it was from the mysterious Ann Primrose Collection then there would be others the same? I don't know how long Ann Primrose vases have been around (I'm increasingly wishing they weren't). So is there any chance it could be Kamei Osaka or Murano then? I'm definitely putting a positive spin on the situation now. After reading the 'Multi-coloured/vase bowl - Avem tutti-frutti? Chinese?' thread, the productive and increasingly ingenius nature of the Chinese seems to be difficult territory to navigate.
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And ... some items (such as paperweights) that may have been made in Taiwan, and distibuted by outlets like "Ann Primrose", have shown a better quality and finish than many of the mainland Chinese items.
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There have been some seriously dramatic increases in quality from contemporary Chinese sources recently.
I have heard that a whole load of Polish glass masters have been imported to teach makers.
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Zibo Anto are the most advanced Chinese maker of thickwalled colourware and I have seen things from them which are quite close.
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Hmm, well. Extensive research by my tenacious partner (she's a bit OCD-ish) has revealed two vases of similar type on ebay.com. - ebay item No. 171423450767 and 280574560208. One of them has the same type of swirls in the glass. Both listed as Murano.
Also found similar one on UK ebay with the 'vetro eseguito secondo la tecnica dei maestri Murano made in Italy' sticker (glass made according to the technique of the masters of Murano) mentioned elsewhere on GMB - 'Can I believe these labels?' post. I think the person selling one of these (ebay UK. No. 191284361504) thinks 'Vetro Eseguito' is the maker! So looking like they're Chinese then - it would be nice to know precisely where they come from and who makes them!
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Made in Italy is probably correct then, just not made in Murano
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Well I'm not too sure myself whether that means the vase is made in Italy or just the sticker?
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It could be Chinese but in a better class than the two you pointed to on eBay, both of which are much more simply made. Yours required a lot more skill. I would still keep looking at Italy too though.
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I will continue to look as I still don't have a definitive answer. To assist anyone who may wish to refer to this post in the future am I allowed to take sections of the photos of other peoples ebay items, and put them on this post or are there copyright/legal problems with this? It's so annoying when links (or ebay ref. numbers) are looked at in the future and have disappeared!
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Sorry, absolutely not.
Unless you have specific permission from the owner of the photographs to use them.
You could always write to them to ask for copies of their pics, for research porpoises. :)
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Hi,
I tripped up over this tonight and it reminded me of this thread - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dale-Tiffany-Lesley-Art-Glass-Vase-AV10768-/371052849611?pt=Vases&hash=item56647929cb (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dale-Tiffany-Lesley-Art-Glass-Vase-AV10768-/371052849611?pt=Vases&hash=item56647929cb)
Just wondered whether it confuses the issue because Dale Tiffany don't appear to be the makers - however if you look at the pages of glass under that name on eBay it looks very Chinese in origin.
As a digression this has probably come up before in other threads, but I haven't always been looking in, so I'll add it here in case it stirs regular's grey cells - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DALE-TIFFANY-Art-GLASS-VASE-Aqua-Royal-Blue-AMPHORA-Gold-Adventurine-FAVRILE-/261369125700?pt=Vases&hash=item3cdad05b44 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DALE-TIFFANY-Art-GLASS-VASE-Aqua-Royal-Blue-AMPHORA-Gold-Adventurine-FAVRILE-/261369125700?pt=Vases&hash=item3cdad05b44)
Nigel
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Yes, we have earlier threads on "Dale Tiffany" wares.
The Dale Tiffany web pages said or suggested (and maybe still say or suggest) that they have their own factory in China, or that a factory in China makes their wares to order. It always seems difficult to get the exact info on such things!
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Thanks for the reply Kevin, nice to know my gut reaction was going in the right direction about the makers :)
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Dale Tiffany sources glass from many different sources and has runs done by different factories. I have a friend who has made 1000's of lighting shades for them over the years and used on their Tiffany style lamps.
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It always seems difficult to get the exact info on such things!
Strange really as the same forces that want lower costs also want nationalistic motivation. Which leads to a negative association given to Chinese glass. I think that is a pity not helped by the Chinese glass industry not marking their glass which while still largely based on Western design there are signs of their own culture emerging within there glass and there is a largely insignificant historical thread to their glass history. So hopefully they will start to give more pride to their glass.
But going back to this piece there are obvious similarities to some of the Chinese pieces that have been linked above but perhaps this particular piece is more original and the source of those designs. None of the examples show the extent of craftsmanship that has gone into this piece, so it is either a Western precursor of Italian or South American origin, or perhaps it is a local Chinese development of the concept taken to a higher level.
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Came across some on Facebook using similar technique. Described as Murano artisans of Brazil.
US artist David Patchen uses a similar technique, might be worth bouncing an image at him. He might know the maker, see his work here http://www.davidpatchen.com/portfolio/foglio#1214
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Some of the best pieces of glass i have ever seen in that link frank.
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Hmm, not sure my vase is quite in quite the same league as David Patchen, but I guess I can enquire. I can't help but think that the thin cased, white interior of my vase seems to be a predominately Polish and Chinese feature. I have quite a few Polish vases which - although I'm not always sure who made them - have a white cased interior.
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Not same league but technique.