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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: RescoCCC on August 21, 2014, 08:23:23 PM

Title: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 21, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
I pulled the trigger on this two weight lot because I find the larger weight intriguing. No clue who made it though. Any help is appreciated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171429485365 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/171429485365)
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 21, 2014, 08:37:23 PM
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Hi. Hard to be sure, but I do not think they are antique (ie 19th century).  I would put my money on Murano, 1960 - 1990.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 21, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
I also thought they looked modern, but the larger one appears to have an antique style concave base. That's what intrigued me.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: paperweights on August 22, 2014, 03:49:21 AM
The large one looks similar to Clichy weights.  Perhaps it is a late Clichy?  If so, congratulations.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: LesBeatiques on August 22, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
The way the canes are distorted reminds of Val St Lambert.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 22, 2014, 04:41:33 PM
When I get them in I'll post images of the larger one. In the interim, I'm digging through my books and catalogs to see if I can find anything similar.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 26, 2014, 06:38:54 PM
Okay, got it in. After digging through my books and catalogs, I still don't have a clue. It measures 3 inches in diameter, and 2 inches high. The base is polished, slightly concave, and has a basal rim about 1/8 inch wide. The rim is 2 1/8 inches in diameter.

Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 29, 2014, 07:02:41 AM
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Hi.  Can you tell whether it is lead glass or soda lime glass (even at the crude level of 'it feels heavy in the hand', or not..)?  Even the weight might help get a handle on that aspect.  Knowing which it is might help eliminate some possibilities.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 29, 2014, 03:42:45 PM
It seems heavier than normal, and weighs 1 lb 6 ounces. For comparison, the 3 inch diameter Strathearns I have weigh 1 lb 1 ounce.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 29, 2014, 03:53:16 PM
PS: I'm also about half way through searching Selman's auction archives. So far, no luck.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 29, 2014, 04:08:33 PM
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Hi.

Thanks for the comments on the glass - it sounds like it might be a lead glass, but of relatively low lead content.

I have been looking at some of my 'oddities', and I have a paperweight with very similar cane structures (and some of the colours), which belongs to the unknown group of antique European paperweights that I refer to as 'starfish' paperweights.  I call them that because many have unusual canes with 5 short straight arms to them.  I am working on an article on these, but will try and post some images of the paperweight I have in mind and the relevant canes in the next day or so.

They are a diverse groups of designs - concentrics, colour grounds, harlequins, scrambles.  They probably date to the late 19th century, and may well be Belgian but not Val St Lambert.  More anon.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 29, 2014, 05:00:30 PM
Thanks, Alan, I appreciate it. I'll also keep researching and see if I can come up with anything.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 30, 2014, 08:26:32 AM
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Hi RescoCCC.

Attached is an image of the paperweight I mentioned, plus a close-up of some canes.  Mine is 3 1/16 inch / 78 mm diameter; it has a white ground.

The first cane image shows the 'starfish' cane: it has a central circular tube, with 5 stubby arms. What makes it distinctive is that it appears to be formed not by moulding, but by adding blocks of white glass to the white tube - quite an unusual technique. The same technique is also used for some six armed canes, but the five armed version appears throughout the family of 'starfish' paperweights, often accompanied by a cane in pink/white/blue made of concentric square tubes.

The second cane image shows three different canes from this paperweight that share a similar design structure: circular tubes or canes grouped around a central core, then surrounded by clear glass, then with a layer of white glass, and finally an outer coloured shell. This is not unknown elsewhere, but is fairly uncommon.  What intrigues me is that the same design occurs in your paperweight, both in the blue canes in the outer ring and the pink inner ones - maybe the red too, but it is hard to see.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 30, 2014, 01:03:07 PM
Any chance of a side view Alan?
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 30, 2014, 02:00:23 PM
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Hi.

Here is a profile view. I guess from the scratched top it is probably the original shape, but you can rarely be certain unless it still has blocking marks or collapsed bubbles on the surface.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on August 31, 2014, 01:18:43 PM
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Hi.  Here is an image of another 'starfish cane' paperweight, this time a red ground, courtesy of Ian Cummings of weights-n-things.  The cane on the outside at 5 o'clock looks to be the same as the one at the centre of RescoCCC's paperweight, which I suspect therefore is another example from the starfish cane maker.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on August 31, 2014, 06:15:42 PM
Thanks, Alan. Frankly I like the color theme in yours better. Some very real similarities in the canes, for sure. The dome profile also seems similar. Are the canes in yours thinly sliced? They are very thin in mine.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on September 02, 2014, 07:16:45 PM
I've continued digging through Selman's auction archives, and just found a very interesting Clichy with canes very similar to two of the types in mine. The smooth sided blue ones with pink centers in the outer ring, and the inner ring ribbed pink ones with the center holes look nearly identical to the canes in the Clichy.

http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/003616.9.2655952883919036247 (http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/003616.9.2655952883919036247)

Lot #20.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on September 02, 2014, 08:07:25 PM
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Hi.  I agree the canes are similar...but why is that a Clichy? I think it is mis-attributed, and is one of the same group as yours.  Remember that Selman make errors from time to time...as we all do.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on September 02, 2014, 08:38:00 PM
You mean Selman isn't infallible?  ;) I'm sure they attributed it as a Clichy because of the rose canes. Of course, a) Clichy wasn't the only one who used rose canes and b) I wish that image was larger so we could see the canes better.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: LesBeatiques on September 02, 2014, 09:45:12 PM
I saw some strong similarities to a weight attributed to St. Mande in Robert Hall's "World Paperweights" bottom left pg. 61. If not the same maker as Resco's deffinatly the same maker as the above referenced Selman's.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on September 02, 2014, 09:55:53 PM
St Mande did use rose canes similar to Clichy. HMM...
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on September 03, 2014, 06:57:33 AM
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Hi.  Regarding rose canes, you can add Grenelle, and unknown French factories, and some Bohemian and Silesian ones too....I have come to the conclusion that the presence of a rose cane tells you one thing: the paperweight contains a rose cane!  Sometimes the rose cane design points towards a particular source, but often not.  Peter von Brackel's second book has a lot of rose cane images.

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on October 16, 2014, 08:57:07 PM
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Hi Resco

I am currently well advanced with an article on the paperweights with star canes that I mentioned earlier in this thread.  I wanted to find the Selman auction paperweight you referred to, but the link no longer works because Selman has restructured their site.  Do you recall roughly when the auction was?  Also, do you by any chance have a high resolution image of your paperweight that I might study?

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on October 16, 2014, 09:01:09 PM
It's auction 32, Spring 2004, lot number 20. The only images I currently have are the ones I posted in this thread. I'll shoot a big one for you.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on October 16, 2014, 09:04:33 PM
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Hi Resco

Many thanks. Sadly, they now start at Auction 33 with their online archive - but you can get 32 if you try hard!

Alan
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on October 16, 2014, 09:08:19 PM
http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/auction2003/auc32/index.html (http://www.selman.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/auction2003/auc32/index.html)
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on October 16, 2014, 09:14:24 PM
I just eMailed you a larger image of the weight.
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: RescoCCC on October 16, 2014, 09:16:31 PM
PS: And in case you need it in the future, here's a link to their past auctions from 1996 to 2011.

http://selman.com/pwauction/cat_past.html (http://selman.com/pwauction/cat_past.html)
Title: Re: Okay, what did I just buy?
Post by: tropdevin on October 16, 2014, 09:26:58 PM
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Hi Resco.  Many thanks for the image.  I have emailed you with more details of why I wanted to see the canes close-up.  More information about these paperweights (which form a diverse class) and their probable origin will appear in a PCA Bulletin article in due course.

Alan