Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: David E on October 10, 2014, 05:33:22 PM
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Thanks to a friend I have taken a photo of this Pirelli tray, complete with box and label. I'm not sure if Pirelli actually slumped trays, but as Webb Crystal Glass was based in London and very active in producing slumped tableware from 1951 to c.1980, perhaps they got involved? Another thing is the style of the box design, which does look very similar to one used (although rarely) by Chance in the 1970s.
I like the design: thick, bold, enamel transfers offset by the fine yellow mesh. The transfers may have been Johnson Matthey (I seem to remember an advert of theirs showing flying ducks), but other companies may have been responsible.
Any thoughts on the date or history of this tray?
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Pyrex did a screen printed design of ducks on gold rimmed plates that is really very similar.
It looks like the same sort of duck, with the blue bit with white spots on the wings, and the wings in various different flying positions. Batteries in my camera are down, but I'll get a pic tomorrow.
I suspect the JAJ Pyrex with the ducks on is ~ '50s.
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JAJ ducks.
The bright blue on the wing of the bottom duck it the first image has got itself into a shadow, so doesn't look bright blue, but I can see, now they're together, that the blue bit with white spots is on a different section of the wing.
I'm not a bird spotter, they're pretty, but one plainish duck looks pretty much like another plainish duck to me. :-[
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Thanks Sue. They do look quite different (plain, as you say) than the Pirelli tray but I have seen/got an advert from Johnson Matthey which featured the flying ducks, so will try and locate it.
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Your Pirelli ducks have curly fantouche coloured tails.
I can tell a duck with a fancy tail from one without, but not until I've got them both together. :-[
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The ducks on the Pirelli Tray are mallard. I have no idea what the JAJ ducks are intended to be.
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Thanks for that.
One thing that I do find interesting is this mention of ysartglass.com (http://www.ysartglass.com/Pirelli/Pirelli%20Glass.htm). Here it states that the circular label might be the first, possibly dated from 1944, but the question is what was the latest date for this label? If it was prior to 1950 this would pre-date both Chance and Webb, which although I find unlikely it cannot be ruled out. Another possibility is that it was made by Webb Crystal in London for Pirelli.
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The label was used on glassware shown in the 1959 catalogue published in glasscatalogue.com that catalogue has no slumped glass. I assume this was mostly used on glassware.
But if you look through the section Member Projects > Decorated Glassware , you will see a few more of Pirelli decorated dishes, all square and another with the mesh background.
I am sure they bought in the blanks from whoever was cheapest, not necessarily in UK.
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Thanks Frank, that puts it into the timeline for either Chance or Webb. I'm assuming then, that Pirelli bought in pre-slumped trays, decorated and fired them. I suppose it's not inconceivable that Pirelli had the equipment to slump trays, but I have no idea how large its set-up was.
Would it be reasonable that Pirelli approached Webb Crystal as it was based in London, not too far from them in Potters Bar? I think importing a cheap item would not have been very cost-effective, even in bulk. Or was it a simple re-badging exercise: made by Chance/Webb, stickered by Pirelli?
All hypothetical suggestions, of course!
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A lot of Pirelli glass was imported and it was normal for decorators to buy from wherever. Cost of importing was not that high for the highly competitive market, probably costs more in real terms today but this still goes on today. No way of knowing who they bought from, though it was quite a lot!
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OK, so not easy to place then.
With regard to the transfer, I have now found the Matthey advert, dated May 1951 (PG & GTR). THe ducks/mallard/whatever are more like those in Sue's images, so unless Matthey bought out a later transfer, the ones on the Pirelli tray could be sourced from another company.