Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: rocco on October 19, 2014, 04:36:20 PM
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I was intrigued by the colour of this vase since I first saw it a few weeks ago at the fleamarket.
Yesterday it had wandered to a cheaper stall, so I purchased it :)
Delicate vase, 13.5 cm high, four indentations to the sides, rim fire-polished, neat circular polished pontil mark.
Teal coloured, glossy surface, with a slightly iridescent golden crackle pattern. In some areas there is another layer of cobalt blue glass visible, but not from the inside (see pics).
So 3 or 4 layers in a quite thin-walled piece...
I did search for hours yesterday, but couldn't find much.
First thought as usual was "Bohemian", so I looked through those fabulous websites by Craig and others.
Similar shapes, similar techniques (Lötz "Mimosa", Kralik "Soft Crackle"), but no real match, especially regarding colours or lustre.
Remarkably similar is this red crackle vase by Durand >> Link (http://www.treadwaygallery.com/lotInfo.php?i=6473)
But I always tend to think that American glass is rather unlikely to be found here in Austria.
And I don't know if the Durand attribution is correct -- other Durand crackle pieces I found on the web looked quite different.
Thanks for any help!
Michael
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Interesting Michael, the shape seems quite like Kralik but not much else does. An opaque crackle - can't think of many examples off hand.
Monart? I know so little about them but probably not.
???
John
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Hi,
Defo not Monart, i have no idea who made these, but have come across 3 or 4 recently (not all in the UK) - different shapes/colours but all small size with this sort of finish and base. The others perhaps have been thicker glass though!
Is there any age wear on the base?
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Looks like pieces I've run across here within the past 6 months in a large operation we call "mercantile" which is hot spot for design decorators so they leave labels intact because they are not in the business to fool people. The group were all solid opaque large crackle designs in various shapes that carried Hungarian lables. I will say this...although they were new they were certainly not cheap, quite pricy as a matter of fact. Also that "Durand" vase in the auction link is decidedly not Durand.
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Thanks a lot for your comments, greatly appreciated :)
Very interesting, I hadn't considered it was contemporary.
The colour sure is strange.
There is considerable wear to the base, though.
Some thoughts:
The vase is quite small, not what I am used to see in the modern home furnishing stores.
And I know very little about modern art glass - but all this effort for such a small, delicate piece...
On the other hand, Hungary is very close to where I live.
So well possible.
And glad that I have obviously learnt a few things here on the board: never trust auction house attributions (and signatures) ;D
Michael
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Here are some examples of Durand crackle from a NY art glass dealer. I've handled 4-5 pieces at a high end shows & Durand crackle is known for encompassing the entire piece at of 50% of the original depth which caused many pieces to shatter during the process.
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Thank you very much, Ken!
I was a little suspicious about that auction of the red crackle vase, as it looked nothing like the other Durand pieces I found online (similar to the ones in your post).
I searched for Hungarian glass, but nothing similar popped up...
I would love to see a pic of the vases you mentioned, to compare if they have the same construction as mine.
Still somehow mysterious that a small Art Nouveau-shape piece like this would have been made yesterday.
I cannot imagine it would be a bestselling model in a department store ;D
And there is quite some wear to the base (just to some areas where the vase sits on).
Michael
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Michael unfortunately I did (and do not) take pictures in the Mercantile as several of us are able to go in periodically to see whats being imported & don't want to take a chance at abusing the invitation. I go once a month to see what glass is being brought in & from where, China, Eastern Europe, Indonesia, etc. Was only commenting on a Hungarian possibility due to the crackle design affect, however (just a thought) your vase's interior color really reminds me of Czech Malachite although others may disagree. I wonder if its early 30s (pre-war) Czech? but others may have a better idea.
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Thanks again, Ken.
I may have been completely off track in thinking my vase was an old Bohemian piece ;)
I was rather amazed that comparable pieces are being made now...
And yes, the interior does have a Malachite glass look, I don't know if on purpose or not...
Michael
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It's pretty!
I'm interested in the layers :) and how they have been cased and then crackled to form the final perception of teal with gold crackle veins.
So, on the interior there is some form of goldy ish colour.
Then cased in cobalt blue
Then that piece is crackled so the cobalt blue separates into sections with gold veins showing between.
Then cased again in gold, so now the cobalt blue sections appear perceptively as teal blue (would casing a gold layer over cobalt produce this teal colour?), but the gold veins remain goldy colour.
Does that sound right in terms of construction?
It would be good to try and have a clearer picture of the wear on the base as well. If this is a small piece then it looks like quite a lot of wear to me for something that doesn't probably weight a lot. I wouldn't expect to see enormous amounts of wear on a small piece really.
But it's a colour that I've not seen before - it's lovely, I would have bought it. I think it could be old still, but the interior colour looks like some newer pieces. I think that could just be because of the colours used to create the piece though maybe? Are there any black bits in the glass? does it 'feel' old?
I think it has a 'new' look about it because it is 'opaque'. Most crackle I see is transparent in some form.
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See post above and also I wonder if there is a possibility it might be a studio glass piece as another option?
I remember looking for Frank a few years ago and coming across an American maker who made a fairly opaque crackle glass finish.
m
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Would not suprise me if some crackle pieces are actually the result of the pattern in the mold rather than the cold water process. Several U.S. companies in the 30s did it on a mass scale.
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This is the thread where the types of crackle were discussed previously.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38630.msg213412.html#msg213412
and I've found the studio glass maker I was thinking of but it's not the same as yours (it was a long time ago in my defense :) )
http://www.jeffpriceartglass.com/GlassGallery/glass_gallery.htm
and that thread
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22057.msg124400.html#msg124400
Nothing similar there.
m
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Thanks a lot for your comments (and research), m :)
It is a mystery piece...
To answer some of your questions:
construction from outside to inside: (I think) clear casing - teal - golden iridescent crackle - dark blue - ochre (fading to green towards rim)
Dark blue only shows in the golden crackle areas.
And I really don't know why this blue layer exists; maybe you're right and it is partly responsible for the teal colour.
I attach a close-up pic of the wear to the base, which to my eye looks as I would expect in a piece of some age.
There is also a bigger blue area visible.
I would rather think it is not a studio piece.
But if it is old or new -- I cannot tell.
Michael
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I'm going with old and Kralik at the moment and will do some more searching for you on that basis :)
They did use this colour teal and their crackle pieces I believe showed the goldy crackle showing in the veins as well.
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/342414377891495329/
I'll try and find a better link for that teal colour.
here
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/83316-beautiful-kralik-webbed-ball-vase--red
As far as is known they also did do two layer two colour crackle as well - I'll find a link in a mo.
m
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Thanks m!
Yes, definately a similar colour there...
Great that you do some research for me :)
Michael
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I will be interested to see what the research turns up. However, until it does, my vote goes to the contemporary manufacture, or perhaps 1950s to 1960s if not. Have you studied the wear on the base with a magnifying lens and compared it to wear patterns on 100 year old vases? Base wear can happen naturally and very quickly by it being kept on a rough surface or it can even be added by someone trying to make a piece something that it is not. Also, I can see why someone might suggest art nouveau, but to my eye it does not fit that style very much.
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Michael, this is a bigger piece and I don't know if the id is correct, but I think the shape of yours reminded me of something like this shape? I couldn't find a vase though only this jug.
There are lots of pinched or 'dimpled' vases from the Bohemian makers and I think your vase does remind me of those. But finding a good shape match hasn't been possible.
I suppose it might be 'newer' Czechoslovakian production taking inspiration from the older shapes perhaps?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRACH-YELLOW-WHITE-MARMORIERTES-PITCHER-APPLIED-AMBER-HANDLE-RARE-BOHEMIAN-/171511465501?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27eee1461d
I feel it must be possible to match the shape because it is mold blown. So it must exist somewhere :)
m
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I have also been trawling and can't find an exact match either shape or crackle!
Most of the older crackle seems to be of a "finer" technique on the thinner glass, I did find a couple of small vases (USA) in a rounder shape with similar crackle, they were "possible Stevens & Williams" attribution which I don't think was correct, I just wish I could find the other similar ones I've seen - I think a couple were on Ebay (USA) - I looked at them as they reminded me of the Monart Cloisonne effect.
if I find anything I'll post!
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this is not the same either but I remember what decor I had seen that squarish pinched shape on
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7570660 (see the picture with the ruler as it shows the pinches well.)
It's not the same shape and I haven't been able to find one the same shape. But at least I remembered where I had seen similar before.
I will keep an eye out though just in case it is an old piece.
m
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see above post
and this is the Kralik orange crackle vase that the neck reminded me of!
I have cropped it so that you can compare it to your photo at the right size. My photo is not at the same angle as yours and I couldn't find another one (now sold) I'm sorry.(edited - to say I did find a better angled picture but it's taken quite close up so not quite the same effect as yours)
I hope you don't mind but I copied your photo and posted it here so it could be easily comparable. If you wish me to remove it, just let me know.
m
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I have seen a similar Tiffany shape , most of the similar crackle techniques have been Kralik, I found an American studio glass range with the crackles, but it isn't that, I'm still thinking it's newer made in the style of Kralik etc.
link to the S&W attribution ones (note - mint condition! and two of them)
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7749644
(someone's going to come along and say they are S&W now, aren't they ;D ;D)
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Not adding much but all Kralik, a couple with dimples, three crackle.
Only including the (uranium glass) Humpen because it is such a superb shape, Roman era glass can be found with this shape.
John
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Thank you all (m, Roberta, Kimo, John, Ken) for your help, greatly appreciated!
This seems to be a real ID challenge ;)
First, I am totally open for the idea that it is a new piece.
But I am still wondering for what kind of market such a small, dainty yet technically complex piece would have been produced; if just to mimic Art Nouveau, why not iridize the whole thing, and choose a less excentric colour?
I think I would never be able to tell if the wear on the base could be added deceitfully; to me it looks natural. It is found - in varying amount - on the areas where the vase sits on. If that hints on older production or not...
And thanks for all the links (and pics of beautiful glass).
Four-dimpled shapes seem to have been extremely popular in early 20th century Bohemian production -- found in so many Kralik and Lötz ranges.
But I couldn't find an exact shape match either.
Those S&W-attribution pieces seem to be much thicker glass.
Michael
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I am hoping someone comes up with a positive ID on this as I think it is a very attractive object and would like to know. I have an open mind about the age, but as I mentioned from what I can see I am on the recent or 1950s-1960s side of the thinking.
As for unusual colors and small pieces, there are and have been a large number of small artisans making very attractive glass. In the US, for example, there are such glass artists at most every serious crafts show and they tend to be one to three person operations. Many make very attractive and accomplished glass objects that are often small in size. Iridized glass seems to be popular among these crafts people. They do most of their selling at the weekend crafts shows or festivals where they set up and make glass for audiences of passers by, or who may sell at crafts stores in malls.
As just a single example, here are some vases made by such an crafts person at a nearby renaissance festival and where such things were for sale after the crafts person finished making them.
(http://cdn3.volusion.com/wswvp.zcjyp/v/vspfiles/photos/ifv-2T.jpg?1397649661)
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Kimo we have a 6 week long renaissance festival here in Ohio near Waynesville...draws thousands of people during that time...its a pretty big annual deal held on a 30 acre site with all kinds of shows including jousting & I know they have glass blowers there in the English village area.
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Thanks for your thoughts!
Though you both may be right that the vase is modern, my gut feeling would still say rather factory than studio glass.
I did a bit of searching (following the Bohemian path ;) ), this time more for the teal colour than for the crackle issue, and found that quite a few makers apart from Kralik used an opaque teal colour, especially in the Tango glass era.
So at least the colour alone wouldn't rule out early 20th century production...
>> Lötz (http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/stories/d.9m5kQEyyf5NSCrnxuOTw.jpg)
>> Lötz (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/56855-loetz--satin-tango)
>> Harrach (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/103492-harrach-tango-documented-animal-figure)
>> Tango (don't know the maker) (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/127505-two-tango-urns-with-similar-decors)
Michael
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I'm still keeping an open mind and could turn out to be wrong, but my guts are still saying old at the moment.
The shape is mold blown, typical for Bohemian glass with the pinched sides, the pontil mark is polished, and it's well made.
The layer of glass are complicated.
I'm thinking maybe Loetz now as well as Kralik, but the shape of the neck and the colour and the dents are making me lean to Kralik at the moment.
Have you looked at all the Kraliks on the Kralik glass.com yet?
I think a shape match will be the best thing and the decor might be quite rare.
m
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Ken, Kimo, I can see what you are both saying though about it possibly being newer glass. (Hedging my bets here :) )
What puts me off the scent of studio glass is the shape and the base finish in combination. For example I can think of one studio glass maker here who does make a series of shapes that are quite symmetrical and complicated and possibly could well include something like this layering of colours and the finish. But the base finish would not be a polished pontil mark like that and I'm not sure the shape would fit as it is quite typical of a period.
I can think of a studio maker who does produced crackle glass in opaque colours but the shape on this vase seems to be too structured and not organic enough to be that maker.
The other thing is that in more recent times, I think quite a lot of studio glass has been signed.
There just seems too much work gone into it somehow for it to be modern factory produced (household decorator ware) and I think the design is too 'classy' for it to be modern decorator ware. They always seem to be either 'off' shapes or 'off'in terms of decor (too many effects, too many colours, too plain etc)
I also think it's more likely that the crackle has been produced by the cold water method or similar rather than in a mold.
Anyway, I have high hopes that we might find the maker for this as some point :)
Let's see what it turns out to be ;D
m
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M I agree in all likelyhood its an older blown piece quite possibly Kralik...just wish Craig would stop in as he could probably be of some assistance as its up his alley so to speak. Ken
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Searching for something else I came across this posting on CW, showing several pieces with the same decor: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/56653-mystery-glass (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/56653-mystery-glass)
So other collectors of Bohemian glass are obviously stumped by these pieces as well. ;)
Not much wiser, but at least we know now that this decor comes on confirmed Lötz shapes...
So either these are Lötz, or some contemporary glass artist is mimicking decors plus shapes in very high quality.
Michael
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the big green piece that Jericho refers to I assume is the one on the right? That appears to be a tri lobed piece maybe, it's difficult to tell from the photos. But it also has old fashioned reeded feet - they look like they might be uranium glass.
Weird/interesting that two have a Loetz shape.
m
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Usually a shape match should be sufficient to attribute with some certainty. ;D
But in this case the decor is so unusual...
Michael