Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on October 30, 2014, 07:50:09 PM

Title: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
Post by: Bernard C on October 30, 2014, 07:50:09 PM
See GlassGallery images, each with click main image to enlarge feature:
  • main view (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-20698)
  • side view (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-20700)
  • base (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-20699)
    • H. 2¼" 5.6cm, d. 4½" 11.3cm, w. 1lb 0½oz 467g.

    This is in amber, thickly cased in crystal, and then tooled, in my opinion much like Whitefriars knobbly.   Nicely levelled, with pontil scar neatly ground out, both polished.

    Any information would be welcomed, particularly on date and manufacturer.

    Thanks for your interest,

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: Mr. Turnip on November 03, 2014, 05:44:51 PM
    I have an Hineri (or Kamei) bowl, 1960s Osaka, Japan, that's not dissimilar in some ways (different colour obviously, but it's wobbly and not Whitefriars or czech!). I couldn't fathom what it was as I'd only previously seen Whitefriars or Czech bowls of this type.

    It's 175mm across and very heavy. Bottom is ground flat though (see picture) - no pontil mark. Never seen another.
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: glassobsessed on November 03, 2014, 06:03:09 PM
    Bernard, yours looks like the matching bowl to this vase: https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/CzechGlass#5474504115175188946

    Quite a few photos of the bowls to compare if you bang something like "Pavel Hlava glass bowl"  into a Google image search.

    John
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: rocco on November 04, 2014, 11:31:01 AM
    I would think the ashtray and the Hlava vase show different production techniques.
    The Hlava pieces were made by blowing the glass in a metal wire cage, whereas the pulled lobes on the ashtray seem to be hotworked.

    That neat polished pontil mark does look very un-Czech, too.

    No idea further than that, sorry.

    Michael
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: Bernard C on November 05, 2014, 03:51:25 AM
    Mr. T., John, and Michael — Grateful thanks for your ideas and suggestions.

    I discussed your contributions with my OH, Janet, last night, and she asked me how I knew my ashtray wasn't Whitefriars.   I explained that the amber seemed rather pale for Whitefriars, and that it should be in the books or on the website.   She then asked how many examples of Whitefriars I've found that aren't in the reference works.

    After that earbashing I had to admit that my ashtray could be Whitefriars.   So I found and unpacked my two examples of Knobbly and compared bottoms.   No obvious difference.

    Could my ashtray be Whitefriars?

    Enlightenment sought.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: Mr. Turnip on November 05, 2014, 06:48:46 PM
    I have seen some very perculiar Whitefriars wobblies, almost unrecognisable and difficult to believe they were allowed to leave the factory. But also difficult to believe they could be anything else. All the poor examples I've seen are recognisable Whitefriars wobbly colours though (usually blue, streaky green or grey). They've always had the Whitefriars style pontil. It does look as though yours is a colour that Whitefriars used on other styles of vase though.
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: glassobsessed on November 06, 2014, 09:16:40 AM
    Quote from: rocco on November 04, 2014, 11:31:01 AM
    I would think the ashtray and the Hlava vase show different production techniques.
    The Hlava pieces were made by blowing the glass in a metal wire cage, whereas the pulled lobes on the ashtray seem to be hotworked.

    That neat polished pontil mark does look very un-Czech, too.

    Good points Michael, I have seen quite a few bowls like Bernard's and always assumed they matched the Hlava vases, you are right and they don't.

    Bernard, did you have Whitefriars knobbly bowls to compare with or were they vases? The tooling would (I think) be the comparison to make.

    John
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: Bernard C on November 06, 2014, 10:23:26 AM
    John — I compared my mystery ashtray with a ruby 9610 cylindrical vase (Jackson pl. 154 (vi)), and a streaky brown tapering 9612 vase (Jackson pl. 154 (viii), oddly described in the caption as a lampbase).

    On the two vases you can clearly see the curve of the "S" tool on some of the knobbles, but on my ashtray the individual knobbles are straight.

    Does that help?

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: glassobsessed on November 06, 2014, 07:49:41 PM
    That does not sound like much of a match.

    Emmi has a similar looking blue one described as not Whitefriars next to a sky blue Hambone vase, scroll about a third of the way down: http://whitefriarsknobblies.blogspot.co.uk/

    Title: Re: Chunky Tooled Crystal Cased Amber Ashtray for ID please
    Post by: Bernard C on November 07, 2014, 01:36:09 AM
    John — thanks.   Emmi's web page shows a close match to my ashtray in Bristol blue a little further down, which she describes as "Small knobbly bowl, has been ID'd as Czech.   ..." with no further enlightenment.   In view of Michael's comment early in this topic "...   That neat polished pontil mark does look very un-Czech, ...", I am not really much closer to an attribution, other than not Whitefriars.

    Also see topic Whitefriars bowls? (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54142.0.html), again "Czech" with no further enlightenment.

    Help!

    Bernard C.  8)