Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: lynbin58 on January 04, 2015, 04:38:32 PM
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I didn't know glass was so interesting!! please can anyone help with these two vases? opalescent stands at 15cm, the opening is 2.5 cm the plain glass with blue decoration stands 17cm and the opening is 4cm, they both weigh approx .5 kg so both pretty hefty!! both have pointels (please excuse my spelling or ignorance if that's wrong) on base.
I think I could get hooked on glass :D
Thanks again for any help
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Sanders and Wallace have made similar but they will not be the only makers to have made similar.
John
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Hi - welcome to the GMB. :) This one doesn't appear to be opalescent - difficult to tell but looks possibly to be slightly iridescent.......... unfortunately your pix are too small and lose some clarity when blown up, so not sure.
Iridescence is a decorative feature that is applied to the surface only, whereas opalescence affects, usually, the full thickness of the glass, as in this link
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51686.msg293093.html#msg293093
and although the opalescence may appear in colours other than this translucent milky white, almost all should show to some degree a fiery orange sunset glow when held up to a strong light source.
If possible try to post your pix with the first dimension at 700 pixels - there are some useful hints on the Board to help with re-sizing............ you could try downloading the IrfanView programme - it's free.
Your 'pointel' should be pontil.........and refers to the glass scar which remains on the base of pieces where the pontil rod has been broken away after cooling.
Usually this scar is removed by grinding/polishing - a process that leaves the tell-tale circular depression on the bottom of many pieces of hand made glass.
Using a pontil rod (with the subsequent pontil scar) is necessary because the glass worker needs to be able to finish the top of the object - by hotworking or simply fire polishing - so he attaches this metal rod to the bottom of the piece (with a blob of molten glass) in order to perform any necessary finishing whilst the glass is still plastic.
Then when all finishing is complete he must break the object away from where it joins the pontil road, and then grind/polish the scar thus creating that circular depression.
Wouldn't worry about getting anything wrong - most of us do on occasions.
Sorry, but after all that I've not a clue about your vase.
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Does the vase you call 'opalescent' have a matt finish all over or is it glossy like the other?
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Thank you John, Paul and Misha ☺irridescent is indeed the correct word for the decoration, it is like petrol affect on water, the finish on it is more matte (I want to say frosted lol) I will take more photos tomorrow in daylight and hopefully get a better quality and use your advice Paul on resizing, and I will look up the possible maker you suggested John, I am looking at all the glass objects in my house with an interest previously lacking 😉
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Okay.... that raises more questions.
Frosted is a fair term to use.... but not so Opalescent.
The iridescent decoration on both vases, is that on the inside surface or the outside surface?
If not inside surface - On the 'glossy' finish vase, is the iridescent effect areas also glossy or do those bands have a matte appearance and look raised from surface, as if applied.
Both vases have this iridescent effect on the 'blue' gathered bands, but the iridescent effect is not on the clear areas between?
The Iridescent areas have a mainly 'blue' colour, but also purple and straw coloured tones present?
You say, something like oil on water 'rainbow' colours. I'd say like heat tempering colours on steel or titanium that have a matte sheen but are more fixed - not changing colour depending on angle viewed at.
It's just that I'm trying to work out how this was made, to have iridescent effect that naturally has a matte frosted texture, following a post manufacture process of acid etching [frosting] all over. I have a suspicion that acid etching would destroy an iridescent effect layer.
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Hi again Misha,
I'm feeling very inadequate with my descriptions lol but I'm very much enjoying this learning process :D
I have taken a new photo of each of the vases (hopefully slightly better than previous ones ;) )
The iridescent vase does feel smooth to touch, the iridescence is on the outside of the glass, and the effect does move when the angle of the vase is changed in the light (if that makes sense) it has purples, reds, blues, oranges and straw colours (rainbow effect) hope it shows in the photo this time!! ;)
The other vase is also smooth, the decoration is not applied it is actually 'in' the glass, like it started out blue and 'fades' to almost clear at the base (there is a very faint tint of blue at the base but could that be a reflection of the blue from top)? Also there is no iridescence in this vase, it is just very glossy (making it very hard to photograph lol)
Thanks for taking the time to help, it is very much appreciated :)
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To me those look like the same/similar vase with different finishes. Irridising will give a semi-matte finish. The blue pulls are applied; they are worked in though so they cannot be felt. I wonder if they are Sunderland Glass. Where in the UK are you?
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Hi Christine, the vases are very similar in design and size as you say apart from the finish, I live in Hull, East Yorkshire :-) thanks for the explanation as to how the design is made, very interesting :-)
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The second vase may have a clear layer over the blue 'threads' that have been laid on an initial clear vase form and then 'pulled' upward to create that type of pattern.
So in reverse, clear ground - blue pulled thread decoration - clear cased - heavy for size?
Cased don't mean it is always heavy for size despite the multi-layer construction.
Looks nice, 'heavy' for size could mean a piece made in China.
Doesn't make it not look nice, just something to be aware of.
At 500g you estimate, I don't think that is overly heavy for size.
The blue cylinder vase I have images posted near end of this thread http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,58883.msg333197.html#msg333197 (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,58883.msg333197.html#msg333197) weighs 850g.
Not that much bigger than your pieces here.
Some forms of glass have heavy metal additions, at least 24% lead oxide, that makes the glass denser... produced item will be heavier.
I'd hazard a guess this is just thick walled rather than lead crystal.
Having mentioned that, I suspect the Chinese glass makers make them heavy [thick] to withstand shipping to market places where affluent people will pay more money for decorator items OR for what they may think is a genuine rare collectable [but they are really buying a counterfeit]. The 'thick' heavy small vase form could have been formed to make a much larger piece, and command more money [more glass to do so] if it could reach the market place or on-line buyer.
More to learn about the glass than meets the eye.
The first iridescent piece... ????
Smaller and looks like a thick heavy base from all the images.
Pretty obvious it's all matte finish.
That comes from etching the surface with an abrasive [aka 'sand blast'] or acid bath... nasty seriously real bad for your health type acid.
I thought post forming acid etching of the near finished item would affect the iridescent quality, being a crystalline refractive effect on the surface.... or thin metallic oxide coating.
I've seen iridescent effect as a matte finish [not acid etched make it matte] and full gloss on sheet glass used for leadlight work [both the dark blue and white iridescent base]
Interesting, there must be different forms or ways to produce this type of effect.
See, we all can make mistakes and learn.
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With the iridescent vase: Is the iridescent effect seen at the clear ground areas, or is it just the 'blueish' thread that is so?
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I wonder if its worth checking with Sanders & Wallace, although the shape is a relatively common form, it is one they did also produce. They are also fairly local to you based in North Yorkshire. Their contact email can be found in the following link:
http://www.kingstreetworkshops.co.uk/glassmakers/contact.php
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/sanders-wallace-signed-dated-art-308931487
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Hi everyone
Mystery solved, when john suggested sanders and Wallace I did indeed contact them (great minds think alike Greg) :-) , I have just received confirmation from David Wallace that they are definitely his :-) that they were made at their Otley studio in the early 1980's. Thank you to everyone for all their help and information it has certainly given me an appetite to learn more 😀
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And thus, another glassy is born ;D Welcome to our world, Lynbin!
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:o WOW.... just done a Google Images search for Sanders & Wallace.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Sanders+%26+Wallace&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=5Im&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=rcs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=j9asVOGfKYXq8gWF4oKwAQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBA#safe=off&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=rcs&tbm=isch&q=Sanders+%26+Wallace+glass&imgdii=_ (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Sanders+%26+Wallace&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=5Im&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=rcs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=j9asVOGfKYXq8gWF4oKwAQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBA#safe=off&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=rcs&tbm=isch&q=Sanders+%26+Wallace+glass&imgdii=_)
A similar image to the subject vase is there [for an ended eBay listing], but WOW.. some of their pieces are very interesting.
An aqua coloured 'wave' sculptural form is in my mind as WANTED!
Still interested to know if clear coloured glass on that acid etched vase is iridescent like the 'blued' areas. ... and if acid etching reduces iridescent quality.
:-\
At risk of digressing from glass subject... now ID is confirmed and all ;D
I say 'blued' because that is the term used in the Fitting & Machining trade when steel is cut at a high speed, efficiently, so that 'tempering colours' appear on the thin waste [swarf] ribbons.
On a lathe, milling machine or drill press, it indicates the machinist is working at correct rate. If colour doesn't appear on waste it shows the machinist is wasting time at the job!
This colour also appears on the cutting edges of drill bits if pushed way too hard, indicating the drill has been heated to the point of loosing hardness. Not a good look at all. It indicates the machinist has ruined the cutting bit... the work of an idiot.
These 'temper colours' are also used as a decorative effect on Titanium jewellery... very profound colour effects result when heated.
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Modern vases are generally not acid etched: too nasty. Any form of frosting removes the surface and as irridising is a chemical reaction at the surface it would be removed. The gloss of irridising depends on the temperature of the glass when it is treated with the metal salts, I believe
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Thanks for the insight Chris.
I admire your valuable knowledge of glass here.
I realise there seems to be different forms of iridised glass around.
I'm interested in how it is done and limitations on what can be done.
I have examples of different types in my collection, both of matte and glossy finish.
What I need to do is photograph and set up an album of sorts here.
Of merit in terms of signature ID and Artist examples of works for reference virtue for members. Don't know how to do that, yet.