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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bat20 on April 27, 2015, 05:31:22 PM

Title: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 27, 2015, 05:31:22 PM
Hi all,I found this piece over the weekend,I have seen similar glass in antique shops and looking online it's described as spa town glass,so a few questions please,was this type of glass a souvenir from a visit to a spa?,is the engraving done free hand?are they meant as decorative pieces and can they be dated more precisely than mid 19 century....and anything else you can think of lol,thanks very much..
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 27, 2015, 05:42:34 PM
There's something else I forgot to mention,did everyone wear a Mexican sombrero around 1850?
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: gaspy1 on April 27, 2015, 08:39:40 PM
Did you realise the German text translates as ' Industrial Exhibition Building'. Possibly not a spa? (and not a sombrero in sight!)
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 27, 2015, 08:53:08 PM
There are three buildings and none of them look like a spa do they!,the industrial revolution took place between 17 something and 1840,there are 6 or 7 Mexicans mooching about in front of the buildings. ;)
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: MatW on April 27, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Hi, the place is Munich, the church shown is " Frauenkirche". The Industrial Exhibition Building is today the Museum of Antiquities. The third building is the Ministry of War.
Mat
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 27, 2015, 10:21:27 PM
Thanks Matt,I've just looked them up ,very interesting,the industrial exhibition building was finished in 1854 and held the first German industrial exhibition,I wonder if the glass was first sold there.
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: Ivo on April 28, 2015, 06:05:46 AM
For dating this it would be better to find out when the building changed its function. This is a typical souvenir piece sold in Munchen at the time before it became a museum - I guess the 1880s 1900s
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 28, 2015, 06:25:35 AM
Thanks Ivo,I've seen a similar glass on the Dr Fischer site dated 1840 with an engraved building on it,for future reference can I ask you your method of dating and do you know how they e ngraved the glass,many thanks.
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 28, 2015, 06:32:57 AM
Your glass can't be older than 1854 because of the date of the building...
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 28, 2015, 06:46:06 AM
That's a given Christine,I'm just wondering how Ivo came to his dates.
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: MatW on April 28, 2015, 06:53:33 AM
Lustrousstone is right, the glass cannot be older than 1854 ( or rather 1848, as the building was finished then). And it must be a bit older than Ivo thinks, as it was used as museum from 1869 on. My guess would be that the glass was made soon after the completion of the building, because it attracted attention then as something new. Otherwise there are many other older or even more impressive monuments in Munich that could have been chosen by the engraver. So a date around 1850 seems likely to me (and also the style looks fine to me for that period, but I am far from being an expert)...
Just to add, there is some very nice ancient glass in the Munich collection: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatliche_Antikensammlungen#/media/File:Roman_diatretglas.jpg
Mat
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 28, 2015, 07:45:08 AM
Thanks again Matt,is Munich your home town?,as for the hats I guess a bit of artistic license by the engraver ,I have looked up mid 19 century head gear and ones that come close are clerical types and the sort you would wear on a grand European tour.
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: MatW on April 28, 2015, 08:19:05 AM
You are welcome! I was born in Hamburg, but I studied in Munich, and from our library I had a nice view on the building on your glass! As to the "sombreros", of course the figures are very tiny, but traditional Bavarian dress includes also such big hats. Here is an old engraving with people from a region near Munich: http://www.altestiche.com/product_info.php?products_id=7427 .
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 28, 2015, 01:16:16 PM
That's brilliant Matt,I'll be able to sleep now,proper hats not these awful baseball caps ;)
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: Ivo on April 28, 2015, 01:50:27 PM
Obviously it dates from between 1854 and 1869. Both the Frauenkirche and the Kriegsministerium are covered by these dates.
Souvenir pieces will pick out the best known landmarks in town, which is this trio. The engravers in Bohemia usually worked from images like this one:
http://bavarikon.de/en/image/kpbO-BSB-BAR-0000000000118252
and pieces may have been produced after the name had changed, they were not always updated promptly so always allow a few years....
Techniques here include fixed wheel cutting for the rim, panels, stem and foot; the red is ruby flashing, and the buildings were copper wheel engraved.
Title: Re: Ruby flash spa town?
Post by: bat20 on April 28, 2015, 02:16:25 PM
Thanks Ivo,wow they don't make souvenirs like that anymore,tremendous skill,I guess skilled labour was very cheap!