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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Greg. on May 04, 2015, 03:58:07 PM
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Hi All,
Would welcome any thoughts on this large cylinder vase, with iridescent streaks of silver chloride. The colour reminds me of some I.O.W Aurene pieces I have seen, however, the base finish is more in keeping with early Mdina pieces, in that it has a large ground and polished pontil mark.
Could this be an early forerunner of Aurene produced at Mdina or an Isle of Wight Aurene piece with a ground and polished pontil mark?
The other noticeable factor is the fairly large size, the cylinder measures, just under 10 inches tall and weighs 1112 grams. The size and base finish in many ways remind me of a large Mdina Rosenthal cylinder vase I have (colourway aside).
All thoughts welcome.
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I'm not sure I can help too much. I agree with all you suggest, and that's all I could suggest myself.
Polished round pontil marks are not known to appear on early Aurene, but the way the colours are worked, it looks far more IoW than Mdina.
How wide is it? I was wondering if dimensions might help, given IoW were a bit more restrictive about size, although I've got some unusual sizes of Aurene cylinders - and unusual colour combinations. The cylinders, especially if big, were more prone to experimentation.
I have two unusual Tortoiseshell cylinders - both have a very yellow colour of background glass and the way the design is executed looks the same, but one is Mdina (Marked on the base) the other is early IoWSG. It's got a (very squished) flame mark on a button. Just to show you how very, very similar early IoW and late Harris period Mdina are.
I do have a couple of massive Aurene cylinders, they're (roughly) 10.5 " tall and 4.5" wide. (I can't find a tape measure, not even the one the cat shredded and have had to estimate using my hand span, which is 7.5".)
Would you like pics of them? They're fairly standard Aurene, though, nothing weird. My weird bits are inbetweeny and wide.
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I've decided the bottom of your cylinder is Mdina, but the top part must be IoWSG! ;)
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Thanks for taking a look Sue.
I've decided the bottom of your cylinder is Mdina, but the top part must be IoWSG! ;)
This was pretty much the same as my conclusion!
The diameter of my vase is 10.5cm or just over 4.1 inches.
I did also ponder over the possibility of early Tortoiseshell, its a tricky one to call, given the Aurene likeness, there are certainly traits that could apply to both studios. However, the pontil finish does keep bringing me back to Mdina, perhaps it was an experimental piece? Maybe Ron would have the answer?
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I think you need Marlene Bristow, but she's retired. ::)
Ron might know if pontil marks where ever roundly polished at IoWSG.
I really think that is the question that needs answered to get the maker right. The top part is too IOWSG-y to really be from Mdina, unless Mr Harris was already experimenting in an IoWSG-y manner, just before leaving.
But the two cylinders I showed suggest the more Mdina style progressed into IoWSG, rather than started at Mdina and was then amalgamated into IoWSG. And there were a fair few really thick swirly inside-out style sorts of things which are really early IoWSG. All I know of really early IoWSG is really very Mdina-ish.
The Harris' brought everything they owned back from from Malta - including some coloured enamels, which is why some of the early strapped Aurene-like stuff is made in Mdina colours - they really were Mdina colours!
Everything at IoWSG was fairly experimental at the start, it took a wee while before actual ranges were decided upon and put into production. :)
I hope I've made myself clear - I'm starting to get confused now. ;)
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Crystal clear, thanks for your thoughts, they are very much appreciated :)
I'll see if I can send Ron a couple of pictures and let you know when I hear back.
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I think it was most likely made at IoWSG. The polished round mark is the "worry".
It's not too thick is it? Even my very tall cylinders are quite thick. (perhaps 6-7 mm). Thinness of glass in the construction suggests IoWSG more than Mdina.
These are my two big Aurene cylinders. You will be able to see a grainy texture in them that is also present in your piece, this is far more typical of IoWDG than Mdina. (until you get to post-Harris period Marble)
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Thanks for the pictures Sue.
This one measures 4mm thick, in comparison my Rosenthal cylinder is around 7mm.
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I've got the odd finely blown bit of early Mdina too, and the short tortoiseshell I showed is the IoWSG one - it's thicker than the Mdina one - but that was perhaps because the same size of gather was gathered, and so the shorter one ended up thicker. Perhaps estimating the size of gather needed was still something that required refinenent?
It being thin, though does support an IoW attribution.
Is there any way we could be completely off track and it is something outlandish like WMF - I've been convinced WMF was Mdina before. It was a piece mhcgolfclub had for id-ing here. ;D
I hope John turns up and says something.
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Been busy...
If I had to choose between the two I would say Mdina - base finish and green blue tint to the glass. I am not convinced though, I see little to make me think IoW, there must be some other contenders too.
John
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But no suggestions as to what any of those others might be - that was my problem, John. I keep forgetting the names of makes which can be similar.
There does appear to be a coating of iridesence on it, is it really there, Greg?
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No, no other suggestions at the moment.
It can be difficult when you can't handle an item.
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Thanks both for your thoughts. :)
I'm sure the iridescence is Silver Chloride, there's no coating present. I have attached a handful of additional pictures I took the other day, one with flash to pick out the iridescence. Hope these help.
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Do the colours resemble anything going on in this Mdina bottle/decanter without silver chloride.....or is the colour all silver chloride ? I didn't know IOWSG did polished pontil marks , are there any examples of this ? Also , there seems to be lots of age to the base which is very unusual ! :) Ta, Mike
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P.S. Here is a link to my only early WMF piece , has a definite green tinge to the glass and the blue colour is confined to the base area (mostly) and quite a bit of age to the base.............(not as much as yours though ! )......only blue and silver chloride combo..
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,52825.0.html
Ta, Mike
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It was the pinky-purple sort of iridescent colour I saw that was confusing me. It could just be a trick of the light.
The new pics do show the silver deposits on the outside, and they do look rather IoW-ish, cometty sort of trails...
But I wouldn't go ruling WMF It is difficult when you can't cop a feel!
Thanks for tracking that thread down, Mike - there's a link to the vase mhcgolfclub had in that one, so very easy for me to find. ;)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,30527.0.html
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It has similarities to this http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1732
Not the best picture and can't remember what the base is like, but the only colorant is silver chloride
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the only colorant is silver chloride
- not all that uncommon for Mdina, I have a couple of bits like that (will be able to add a couple of photos later).
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I have to retract my 'geen tinge' /tint comment .....none , just a play with the light from the blue in the base area ::)
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Your stoppered bottle uses yellow and orange coloured enamels Mike, no silver salts in this design (unless some get in by accident/cross contamination).
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Thanks Sue,
I didn't think it contained any silver chloride ....nice to know what it does contain though !
So it looks like this example is all silver chloride with a bit of blue in the base, as far as I can see . :)
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The blue is the dodgy clear glass (i.e., poor quaity sand) found in a lot of earlyish Mdina
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Oppps ! I might just have to retire !...not easy trying to suss the pics. :D
Sorry Greg !
Cheers, Mike ???
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No retiring!
You're just on the learning curve. :)
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It's a long curve for me though....Iv'e been on it for years :D ;)
This vase must be an early Mdina then , is that the conclusion here ?
Cheers me dears, Mike
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I'm completely stumped. ;D
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Thanks Mike for the pictures and also the link to your WMF piece, I had forgotten about that thread. :)
It is certainly easier when viewing the vase in hand, the camera photos also have a habit of picking up background colour, which makes things trickier.
The iridescence Silver Chloride streaks do give a subtle purple/blue effect to the glass at certain angles. Also the thickness of the base also distorts the true colour again when viewing at certain angles.
Thanks for your thoughts Christine. I don’t know why I hadn’t thought about comparing the quality of the metal, which on close inspection is very similar to other Mdina pieces I have from the same period. There is also a multitude of small bubbles that can be seen within the base on close inspection, again a reminiscent feature of earlyish Mdina glass.
Handful of pictures attached...
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One globe, one inside out vase.
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Those look familiar...
Do you recognise this one, John?
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Thank you both for the photos.
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The cylinder above is Mdina, decorated only with various silver chloride effects. Quite a stunner, but my pic is bad. :-[
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A lovely example Sue. :) - I guess generally speaking these would be fairly early..?- How is the base finished on your cylinder out of curiosity?
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It is an early one, I suspect Boffo, because of the grid-pattern of silver deposit on it, and the base is one of the small, slightly raised ones. It's polished flat and about 1.5" in diameter. These slightly raised bases, rather than just plain flat bases, are all early-ish. No marks written on it.