Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: essi on May 23, 2015, 06:58:32 PM
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I have two elfverson vases with registration numbers, I looked up the numbers in the glass association registration numbers 1908-1945
and they were registered on 30/03/28.
Can anybody tell me if the kew archive hold other information like pattern sheets or drawings attached to registration numbers ?
I believe that elfverson glass was made and cut at whitefriars, are there any records of this?
The vases are about 260 mm high.
Thanks for your help.
Tim
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Yes Paul S. here on the board has done a lot of work on RD numbers at Kew, so he may well be able to help you with more info. I've tweaked the subject to hopefully catch his eye.
We also have an RD no. lookup request topic here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,52152.0.html :)
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Essi, I presume from the registration date that they are from registered design number 736503. Are the RD numbers embossed, engraved, etched or whatever, please?
BTW, the 'Blue Book' gives the registrant as Elfversen & Co. rather than Elfverson.
Fred.
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hi Tim - nice vases - regret to say they're not something I've come across in the past ......... and thanks Fred for the Rd. No. - always useful to provide these if possible - at least then we all know exactly what we're speaking about :)
I have copies of images for almost all of the British Board of Trade Registration Nos. between 1842 and early 1884, so can provide pix and details from the corresponding Register for that period .... but, post 1884 data for glass Rd. Nos. (CLASS 3), were amalgamated with Registrations for almost all of the other Classes. This doesn't complicate the matter, but does involve a lot more time and physical effort wading through the books looking for just the glass items - so other than specific requests for data that we don't have - and which Kew does - I tend to avoid the post 1884 books.
Of course if you like looking at Victorian and Edwardian coloured print material - wallpaper designs - unusual fireplaces, clothes horses, lace and some toys - then great.
Which is a roudabout way of saying I don't have pix or information for March 1928, and would need to visit Kew in order to locate details.
However, think you would almost certainly be disappointed, as fairly sure all that will be available in the Representations book will be a drawing or - in view of the date possibly a sepia photo - showing simply an outline image of the shape of these pieces - plus the Rd. No.
The Register will likely be equally unhelpful, and will show only the Rd. No. - date of Registration, and name and address of the Registrant .... which it appears we know already.
sorry, but almost certainly Kew won't provide details of the W/Fs connection of which you speak, and the drawings, or pix, won't add to what we know already about the shape.
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occurs to me to wonder if the W/F's people here are able to help with your question regarding a connection that factory ??
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Thanks to Fred and Paul for the input. The mark on the base appears to be engraved. Both marks are very feint and appear to have been done by different hands. The last one or two digits of the blue vase number I have had to best guess.
Although quite similar in appearance there are quite a few differences. The green vase has a faceted cut on the side of the base (this could be restoration !). The cutting of the design on the blue vase stops about 3/4 s of the way down. the blue vase has a 12 pointed star cut underneath. the angle of the cuts in the design are also different. Could that all be variations on the same basic design?.
Maybe a trip to kew might be the answer.
Paul is there a beginners guide to how to go about things at kew on the forum?
Thanks once again
Tim
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not so sure there is Tim ......... although if you search the web using - The National Archives at Kew - then you should get all you need in the way of guidance on proposed visits and their requirements re security etc., and how to handle difficult, heavy and old books etc. - they're very keen on showing you to handle some of the older registers. If you do get to Kew you'll see why - some of the C19 registers are 9 - 10" thick and need a wheelbarrow to move them.
Don't know where you are in the U.K., or if it would be your intention to visit in person, but do read the guidance notes before visiting because from memory you can't just turn up and start looking through their records.
You will need to complete forms etc., and provide a passport type photo, in order to get a readers card, and this may take more than one day to process. Understandably, there are very strict security measures in place - just so that people don't walk of with - for example - Shakespeare's will, and there are limits on what you can and can't have on your person when you enter and exit. Rubbers, chewing gum, ink pens are not allowed (all of which I've fallen foul of at one time or another) - although cameras are o.k., and if you take items into the building these must be contained within a clear plastic folder so they can be seen. The contents of these folders are checked on entry and exit.
If you choose to enlist the help of their professional researchers, then this will cost money.
Through the discussions and arrangements between Bernard Cavalot, myself, and the Trustees at Kew, several years ago, The Glass Message Board now has permission to reproduce images and data from the Kew archives, on the Board.
It's part of the National Archive Trustee's agreement with the GMB that any images shown here must carry a watermark, which isn't a problem, and if you punch the word 'watermark' into the Board's search you should bring up the link that Bernard posted some while back, and you can copy the link and download for your own use - it's a very good app, and one which I use for all the watermarking when I post Kew's pix on pressed glass, here on the Board.
Of course, if you don't intend to post into the public domain then there's no need to watermark.
I've also persuaded the V. & A. to offer the same facility, but from memory think I've only once shown glass from their galleries.
Can only repeat though that from experience it's almost certain that you aren't going to find the sort of information you appear to be seeking, from the Kew archives, although would be useful to have pix showing the original drawings/photos submitted to the Board of Trade, for 736503.
Just out of interest I notice that the Glass Association Blue Book includes two more Rd. Nos. from the same Registrant, on the preceding day.
Nos. 736470 and 736471 - would be interesting to know what these related to.
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Hi Tim have you tried the Museum of London ? they have a lot of WFs info and now the Harrow Heritage Museum has finally shown an interest . I have seen one of your vases its amazing .
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Thanks very much Paul for your comprehensive reply. I live about 40 miles to the west of kew in princes risborough so no problem to get there.
If I turn up some useful information I will gladly share it here on the G.M.B.
Hello john, thanks for the input. I understand that it is extremely difficult to get in to the M.O.L. whitefriars archive , is that so ?
Thanks again,
Tim
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Tim several people we know from dot com and dot org have got in .