Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: glass newbie on May 27, 2015, 05:21:28 PM
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i have seen these marks on the base of bottles etc, as a seal to the base with the V cutout on the tips ... i am under the impression this is MDG ... originally i thought mcg, ..... can anyone verify this paperweight is MDG ?. many thanks
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Nobody knows.
The impressed cross mark does refer to this works, (with the v-shape notch in the arm) but we don't know unless there is a label, which is MDG and which is MCG.
In general, I suspect the more sophisticated and complex unique pieces of art glass is MDG, (where they use coloured enamels and silver salts to create colours in the glass; and the more general decorative tourist items are MCG. I also tend to assume if white enamels are used, it is more likely to be MCG.
On the other hand, some of the things which I would still call decorative touristy and are MCG are really quite complicated and sophisticated, eg, the conch shell.
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Hi. For us newbies to this area, could you let us know what MCG and MDG stand for please. My guess is Malta C Glass and Malta D Glass. C for ??? and D for Decorative.
Alan
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Craft.
Malta Decorative Glass company and the Malta Craft Glass company. Basically the same enterprise, I believe Craft came after Decorative, with more input from China - even some pieces being made there and imported into Malta for sale.
Unless somebody knows different?
My personal interest is in the MDG that relates to Mdina, not so much in the later Craft pieces or weights.
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The conch shell is MDG, not MCG
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Doh, but thanks! :-*
It's got white in it so bye-bye to my theory of MDG just being the Mdina-like stuff and not using white enamels
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Hi Sue. Thanks for the MCG / MDG explantion.
Alan
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Another example.
John
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i would like to thank everybody for their time taken for their input attempting to solve this mystery for me, so just to be clear, is there any definite answer as to who this weight is by ?. many thanks again .
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Glass newbie's weight was made in China, but has a Maltese Cross base stamp. I guess that ties in with the Malta Decorative Glass / Malta Craft Glass companies using Chinese items and then stamped to the base to turn them into "Made in Malta" gift items.
This type of gift weight, with its crimped petals and yellow central "pistil", but without a base stamp, is very common (probably made by the hundreds of thousands).
Edited (with my Moderator abilities) to add - Please see my later clarification and comments, with photos.
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hi kevin H , i have heard this before , however i have read some data and documents wolfie managed to find some time ago about mcg, and it mentions the chinese investors, how they spent a fortune on new machinery. now if a company spends a fortune on new equipment why would they ship from china ? has this been confirmed by someone once working at the factory ?, like actual facts or simply conjecture ? i have searched for several months and not found any weights with this mark i find that baffling if they did indeed ship thousands at a time as they were so cheaply made in china . i am referring to this post by wolfie http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,58498.10.html ..... thankyou for taking the time to respond .
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go straight to page 11 , with the best info on page 12 http://www.historyofglass.org.uk/pdfs/glass_news/glassnews13.pdf . ........ also i found this http://www.made-in-china.com/traderoom/maltaglasscreations/companyinfo/Malta-Glass-Creations.html and this http://www.maltaglasscreations.com/paperweights.html
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I would say the two marks are the same. I think John's has been highlighted with something to show it up. We know no more about MDG/MDC than is available here on the Malta board, despite research. There are a few things bearing similarities to Chinese glass with the MDG/MDC labels but we cannot know where they were actually made. There are some things though, including John's paperweight, that are very close to Mdina stuff, so I think we are safe in assuming they were made in Mdina
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I think Malta Glass creations is a red herring, as they engrave and fuse, which means they don't have a furnace, just a low cost kiln, so can't work with molten glass.
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hi loustroustone , the only thing that convinced me was this paragraph "Malta Glass Creations is a family business situated in the Ta' Qali Crafts Village Malta, that was established by the late Lino Cachia in 1984" as this was 1984 just four years after the closing of the factory ... wondering if the chap who started this new factory was a worker perhaps and maybe started out making items completely different to what is manufactured now ? ( purely curiosity and conjecture and may well be a red herring) . i have seen fairly similar paperweights from other companies as mine, obviously no maltese cross to underside and were not made in china.
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I would say the two marks are the same. I think John's has been highlighted with something to show it up.
Just a lucky photograph of a cleanly impressed mark, the only highlighting is a slight tweak of both the brightness and shadow.
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This has got busy!
The impressed mark of the Maltese cross in the base of the "Earthtones" style paperweight is exactly the same as the impressed mark on glass newbie's weight. It's my weight. :)
The mark is very deeply impressed, hard to photograph, and there is contamination from some opaque pinkish enamel around it.
I also have an Earthtones style stoppered bottle with an impressed cross, so this mark was definitely used at MDG. This "Earthtones" style of glass was not made in China.
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Surely, if the Chinese invested so much money in the Malta Decorative Glass project they would want to send over some of their best and finest glassblowers to make sure it all kicked-off well. Why wouldn't they be able to make paperweights,(and other glass items) as they did back in China, and add the Maltese cross mark to the base (and paper labels !) ?
Here is a Wikileaks article from the time , which mentions the concern coming from the private sector in Malta , towards Chinese funded companies.....scroll down towards the bottom..........
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1974VALLET00567_b.html
so the Chinese were using Malta and it's factories and workforce as a manufacturing facility .
Cheers, Mike
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I have an Earthtones style bottle and a paperweight with this mark impressed into their bases. Both are MDG, I believe, not MCG.
The whole MDG and MCG story is one that has only been pieced together fairly recently, mostly gathered from observation of the work as collections have grown and labels or impressed marks were found, then the observation of the "batutto" style of polished base appeared and that helped a bit.
There are some written articles on-line - but several have since been found to be inaccurate or just based on hearsay and rumour.
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For clarification regarding my earlier post and my comment about Glass Newbie's weight being Chinese ...
The attached photos show Top and Base of two examples weights I have had for nearly 20 years.
One is a small (approx 2 1/4 diameter x 2 inch height) crimp flower with white petals over three green "leaves" and a thin central red/yellow "pistil". The other is a larger example (approx 3 1/4 inch diameter x 3 inch height) crimp flower with white over green petals / "leaves", a central "pistil" made of yellow rods and a lampwork butterfly floating above.
These two weights show the typical design of masses of Chinese "crimp flower" weights made from the earlier 20th century to the present day:
a) a few rows of crimped petals
b) three fairly well spaced green "leaves" to the underside of the petals
c) a central "pistil" using a single cane or multiple canes
d) with or without an insect or other animal somewhere in the design
The base of my two examples show the same type of finishing - an uneven rough / matte central area that feels as if it is somewhere between "fire polished" and "ground".
Weights like these can often be found as parts of mixed lots in auctions or as single offerings on eBay etc.
What seems strange, given the numbers I believe were made, is that on the internet, it is not easy to find exact matches to some weights of this type. But there are plenty of matches when we look carefully for the individual elements. Sadly, so many web pages and auction listings never provide a photo of the base of weights.
If I could take the central "pistil" out of my larger weight and place it in my smaller one (with relevant proportions), then I would have a weight that is a very close match to Glass Newbie's example. It is only the base that really differs.
It seems to me that the one with the Maltese Cross has had the base heated by torch (which is probably how the "ripples" have occurred) and, while still hot, the Cross was impressed. And that would fit with my belief - Made in China but base stamp added later, or perhaps the stamp was added in China as part of an order.
I find it had to believe that the Maltese workers could produce a weight that has so many common features to those made in China.
As for the actual connections between the Maltese companies and Chinese businessmen, and what was made where and by whom, I leave that to those studying such things.
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A few extra photos:
Larger weight - oblique view showing "pistil" more clearly
Larger weight - side view showing separation of flower and butterfly
Smaller weight - oblique view
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From the information seen this thread and others it seems very likely that in addition to the locally made, more distinctively Maltese pieces, that MDG/ MGC sold, Chinese made pieces were also imported and sold under the brand(s). I've long believed the fish and other pieces produced in typically Chinese colors were shipped in from the PRC. The Chinese attribution of the OP's weight lends weight to this explanation. This would make sense and would explain why we don't see the more lurid colors seen on the fish, etc. on the more typically Maltese, 'earthtones' style pieces.
This type of arrangement seems quite common in the industry. When I was buying liuli glass for import I contacted a factory in Zhejiang. Although they had an extensive range selling under their name, only certain ranges were made in house. smaller, high volume items such as jewellery, charms and small paperweights were all actually bought in in bulk from a different maker in Shanghai.
it wouldn't make economic sense to produce the OP's style weights in any great number in Malta as China would have had massive production capacity and minimal labour costs at the time. Of course glassblowers from the PRC could have made some but then I'd expect locally made weights to use the same colors as the other Maltese made pieces which doesn't seem to be the case here (the second weight looks unquestionably Maltese, but the OP's is markedly different in all but the mark). if you order glass from China they'll add any mark you want providing you have a big enough order. This is true today and I'm sure it would have been the same 40 yrs ago.
Does anybody know more about the Chinese connection: e.g. what individuals or firms were involved in backing the enterprise? That could prove an interesting avenue to follow, though Chinese records from the period are likely hard to come by. Anyway, if anyone has any names or further data it would be a good starting point. Who knows, if they were local to Jiangsu Province I could maybe even get my students to look into the history as a summer research project ;)
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if they were local to Jiangsu Province I could maybe even get my students to look into the history as a summer research project ;)
Hi Mosquito,
You might be interested in this topic.......... The fish have many similarities to those with MDG lables.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,59080.msg334289.html#msg334289
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59308.0;attach=170612;image
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Hi, I have been reading this with some interest.
Hi. For us newbies to this area, could you let us know what MCG and MDG stand for please. My guess is Malta C Glass and Malta D Glass. C for and D for Decorative.
This has not been explained correctly and I would like to point out that its important we get company names correct. This does not help with new collectors looking for information and muddles on-going research.
MDG = Malta Decorative Glass (74-early 78)
CGL = Craft Glass ltd (78 only, MDG renamed)
MCG = Malta Craft Glass (is not a company name, it appears on the GCL labels as a product description)
MGC = Malta Glass Creations (84, it has no known connection to any of the above)
Malta Decorative Glass company and the Malta Craft Glass company. Basically the same enterprise, I believe Craft came after Decorative, with more input from China - even some pieces being made there and imported into Malta for sale.
These were not the same enterprises although certain decorative glass products were still being produced or could have been old stock that was relabelled. The Italians (GCL) took over in 78 and 80% of their production was chandeliers so there must have a considerable drop in decorative glass products at this time.
It seems to me that the one with the Maltese Cross has had the base heated by torch (which is probably how the "ripples" have occurred) and, while still hot, the Cross was impressed. And that would fit with my belief - Made in China but base stamp added later
To add a stamp to the base would make no economic sense as you would need to slowly reheat the weight in a kiln and then use a torch. It would be easier to make a whole new weight.
Surely, if the Chinese invested so much money in the Malta Decorative Glass project they would want to send over some of their best and finest glassblowers to make sure it all kicked-off well. Why wouldn't they be able to make paperweights,(and other glass items) as they did back in China, and add the Maltese cross mark to the base (and paper labels !) ?
I totally agree with this comment, they built a huge factory and brought over Chinese glass blowers so there is no reason why they could not have used their skills gained in China to produce weights in Malta. MDG had 80 workers minimum; they would have needed to produce a lot of pieces to keep them all employed.
Also when they left Malta they could have carried on making these products in China. My thoughts are that there was a flow of workers making very similar products, in China then in Malta and then in China again.
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I guess the answer is nobody knows but they are of the same style, consistency and poor design of Chinese weights so we can safely put them in that classification.
Unlike the weight which Glassobsessed has posted which has features we would associate with Maltese Art Glass.
Is a weight made by Chinese people with Chinese materials and Chinese training Chinese? I think a safe answer might be yes.
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Thanks, Wolfie. I have severe memory problems and can't keep up with the perturbations to do with the later Chinese input, which I don't find so interesting.
There isn't any "Maltese Art Glass" company, is there, nemmie? That would just be more confusion.
The weight Glassobsessed posted the image of is Malta Decorative Glass.
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If not made by an Italian maestro clearly influenced by one
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If not made by a Chinese man then clearly influenced by one.
Note one's got a MDG and the other MCG label
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There has been a request that this thread should be moved to the Malta Glass forum, and given the direction the discussion has taken, it may seem reasonable to do that.
However, the topic also remains of interest to people focusing on Paperweights, and especially for those who are not aware of the Maltese Cross stamp applied to some weights.
Perhaps the best solution is to create a new thread in Malta Glass, with relevant title and post a link to this thread in the Paperweights forum.
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Thanks, Wolfie. I have severe memory problems and can't keep up with the perturbations to do with the later Chinese input, which I don't find so interesting.
There isn't any "Maltese Art Glass" company, is there, nemmie? That would just be more confusion.
The weight Glassobsessed posted the image of is Malta Decorative Glass.
Maltese style/ Chinese Style.
I hope that makes things clearer as to what I was saying.
Maltese style/ Chinese Style.
I hope that makes things clearer as to what I was saying. I certainly wouldn't want to lead to more confusion for the starter of this thread or anyone else for that matter.
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from all i have read here, it seems apparent that quite possibly my weight was made by chinese glass blowers,but i think in malta .... this does not make it chinese, it makes it maltese ... nobody questions the ethnicity of the blower or attributes that to the items identity .... if that were the case all harris pieces would be english not maltese glassware .
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I think we don't know where it was made (not blown) but we do know it has an MDG-like mark on the bottom, so was probably sold on or exported from Malta. I'm not sure we can conclude much else, least of all about the ethnicity of the maker.
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I think the problem here is that this style of paperweight has always thought to be Chinese and more often is the case it is difficult to consider it coming from somewhere else. As previously stated we do not know for sure where they were made but my feeling is they would have made these at MDG. Lets hope some research clears this up one day.
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Hi. I knew I had a similar piece somewhere, and have now found it! Mine has a Made in China label. Diameter 1 3/4 inch / 46 mm.
I would be very surprised if any of these Chinese crimp flowers were made in Malta. I imagine you could have them made with any mark you wished on the base, as long as you placed a minimum order of 300 pieces.
Alan
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Or more simply when the factory closed the Chinese returned home and carried on making these basic lampwork paperweights. I can't imagine that a factory employing 80 personal set up by the Chinese with Chinese materials and teachers is going be importing paperweights from China. I might wrong but I just can't see it happening. I shall research this further in the future.
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Hi. I think my example dates to the 1930 - 1950 period, so well before the Maltese versions.
Alan
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I think some of the posters are trying to make this into something it is not. This style is abundant with no markings other than paper labels. All of the early examples I have seen had "Made in China" labels (if they had labels at all). This original poster's example demonstrates that there may also very few cases where someone has tried to add a factory attribution.
Aside from the "Made in China" label, I've seen other labels which are primarily importers paper labels. For example, I've seen them at Corning marked Avita (a known importer of Chinese goods). They don't sell for much, often less than $5 even in shops.
To suggest that this may be made elsewhere, such as Malta, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We should have other examples from the same factory and none have been found. Actually, I am not even sure why any Malta distributor would go through the trouble of adding their mark. Maybe the mark was added in China as part of the purchase specification.
Alan suggests that his example is pre-1950. I am not sure that can be documented. I've always believed most simple examples with only a flower are later, 1960s or later.
Of course, this is only my opinion.
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Have you read the whole thread Allan and are you aware of the collaboration between the Maltese government and the Chinese ? and the story behind it.
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Hi. (I realise the previous comment was not addressed to me, but there are points worth making about this Chinese aspect). The Wikileaks material shows that the Americans were twitched about increasing Chinese influence, and it described what they feared might happen - not what had already happened. I have seen no evidence that any huge factory was actually built. The glass factories such as Mdina, Valetta, MDG appear to be located in a small crafts village (Ta Qali Crafts Village). If you check out Malta Decorative Glass now they are a tiny outfit described as importers / exporters / manufacturers - and the latter appears to be fused glass items. I still suspect that they imported the flower paperweights from China.
Alan
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Me too Alan I told the poster this somewhere else months think he was hoping it's actually something special maybe a 'Boffo' piece with his connections to the MDG factory.
Other Allan I have added a couple of examples of these obvious Chinese type weights earlier in the thread one with a MDG label and one with a MCG craft label so were clearly sold out of the factory I see no evidence whatsoever of a Mdina or Malta Decorative Glass or indeed a Boffo influence in any of these pieces apart from the base stamp on one.
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Clearly some people who have replied are not aware of the scale of the MDG production and should go to Malta glass section and read my previous research. It was substantial factory (not a glass studio) situated at A36 Industrial Estate, Marsa, not in the craft village. It was big building with offices at the front, factory at the rear with a 120ft chimney. IMO MDG was the biggest glass producing company that has been on Malta, bigger than the present Mdina glassworks and certainly employed a lot more workers (I have been to Mdina glassworks and Joseph Said gave me a tour).
I hope this pic will help you understand the size of the place.
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The Wikileaks link above talks about the concern from the private sector over 'marketing' issues associated with Chinese owned or perhaps part-owned companies/factories based in Malta in c 1974. I wonder why there was so much concern over 'marketing' from the locals in Malta at that time , which was a very difficult period , economically, in Malta ? Were they, perhaps, concerned (with respect to MDG ) about the possibility of Chinese glass being sold in Malta ? ...The factory hadn't been completed at the time of the Wikileaks article .
Why, also , would they raise these concerns, if it wasn't for an economic reason ....i.e. glass items could be produced a whole lot cheaper in China ? ??? If the glass was produced in Malta, then it would have had the same unit cost as any other glass produced on the island...so no reason to raise concerns , perhaps ?
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for me as i said previously, i think the mystery has solved , because , i think the weight was made in malta by chinese workers with chinese skills, therefore obviously chinese styling and influence will be present, they may have returned back to china once the factory closed and made all the other weights we see with chine labels on . i did not think this is something particularly special chris, but often i see in the other place i know you from, when people do not have a clue what the item is i am posting i get the same pre-rehearsed response " it's chinese, worth a fiver" ... after several times of that you lose faith in what you are being told. hense why i brought it to a wider audience of experts, even here the opinions differ . so to conclude i think this was made in malta by the chinese workers.
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Hi. Thanks (WhatHo!) for flagging up your research into the factory under the Malta Glass section.
It seems that MDG did have a lot of employees for 4 years or so, but how many were glass workers, and how many were in that large office block dealing with admin / sales / marketing / export / and maybe import? I suspect the Chinese saw Malta as a means of gaining access to the European market, as Malta had signed a treaty with the EEC in 1970. So goods could be imported into Malta ( as 'raw materials'), processed (put in boxes and labelled), then exported to EEC states as products of Malta, with commensurate tax advantages. Maybe the flower paperweights arrived by that kind of route. It is similar to the process that brought so much Chinese glass through Murano a few years ago.
In respect of 'It's Chinese, worth a fiver'....if only! ;D I give most of the Chinese paperweights I get (and for that matter, Maltese too) to the local charity shops.
Alan
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And of course Alan these Chinese weights were around long before the MDG factory :)
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Just to clarify, none of the paperweights posted in this long thread were made using a crimp.
The flower petals are applied individually.