Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: keith on May 28, 2015, 04:42:00 PM
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Got this today, green and reddish brown, the question is, this one has tiny indentations on the rim, is that common ? you can just make them out on the first picture ;D
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Keith, can you tell me what size this is please?
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Sorry forgot, it's 9.5 inches across, ::) ;D ;D
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Ta Keith. It reminded me of the moss green one I picked up late last year which is about the same size, and I wondered if they may be from same stable, but the base is different - mine has a polished pontil mark and yours seems to be slightly depressed, and I think your bottom is a bit wider than mine (not often I can get away with saying that! :P)
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This is Topaz-Briar, Keith, and one of the more uncommon cloud colours and only made from 1957–61. I have a few T-B examples myself, including some rare examples that are satinated all over, or just satinated on the outside.
A good find (again...) ;D
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I think the indentations may be cooling artefacts
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Thanks all, not sure what you mean by 'cooling artefacts' Christine, it's a uniform mark all the way round, David, do your pieces have such marks ?
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I think the word is satinised David ;D ;D
I have a couple of Davidson (I think) bowls in ruby with what appear to be definite and regular indentations/toothed/almost cog wheel decoration around the rim - will dig them out and post shortly. I really don't think they're the result of cooling. One is quite wonky from memory.
Very nice by the way Keith.
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two ruby bowls - presumably identical, although one is so wonky it must have been a seconds I think. Looks to match Keith's example in shape, and could be wrong by believe it's Davidson's No. 21 pattern bowl, showing (as blue) in the top picture on page 81 of the Stewart's book 'DAVIDSON GLASS - a history'. The book shows this bowl to have been part of a trio which also included a stand and frog.
In the book picture you can see the regular rim decoration as described by Keith, and does appear to have been a very definite and intended form of decoration, although get a feeling that there was some slight hit and miss in the strength of appearance.
One of my examples shows the pattern clearly - the other has this only weakly, and both have the W or M, in relief on the underside of the foot. Seem to remember we discussed for months, which letter this was intended to be - although don't remember whether it was ever resolved.
Does yours have this mark on the base Keith?
The size of these red examples matches that of Keith's bowl.
Don't think Anne's piece is related - partly due to the shape, and partly due to the description of the pontil depression.
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Hello Paul, no marks to the base but the foot is the same as yours, topaz and briar ! ::) ;D ;D brown and green where I come from !
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I think the word is satinised David ;D ;D
Satinated is also correct, Paul! :D
The 'cog wheel' rim (called 'knurled' on www.cloudglass.com) is quite normal for this bowl and examples can be seen here: http://www.cloudglass.com/flower3.htm
It was produced as a 3-part flower set with plinth and flower support (frog). I have one in orange cloud but the cog wheel is much less prominent (= later manufacture?) and a black plinth, but the black frogs* - and particularly the orange ones! - are quite hard to track down. The No.20 bowl is similar, but with a shallower foot and is much scarcer.
*Anyone with a black Davidson 4-in flower support, please let me know ;)
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As we know from our bumblings around shows, boot sales and fairs etc., anything in matt ( ;D) black is scarce - although the shiny (jet) black is not. I almost never see matt black now - I don't know whether it was a Davidson speciality (in the U.K. I mean), or made by others.
Will look out for you but you could be in for a long wait. Somewhere buried in the shed there is a matt black trio - 1910M I think - shown on page 92, but am certain the frog isn't 4.5" Personally, I like the satinized/satinated black - always makes me think of art deco and the 1930/40's.
Was it produced by acid or sandblasting, or something entirely different. I know the W/Fs collectors use the word cogwheel for a similar but more pronounced decorative effect on the rims of some feet from that factory.
I don't know why the effect should be so noticeably strong and week on my two pieces - a mould defect quite possibly.
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just for the record here is the Davidson No. 20 - shallow footed bowl - that David mentions .............. again showing the knurled decoration around the rim................ another three piece set of which this is all I have, and you can see the difference in the foot profile when compared to the No. 21.
Assume this is blue cloud, with purple streaks, and diameter is about 11" (280 mm) which seems a bit bigger than the book mentions, but no doubt there was some variation in size.
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Matte black is a rarity, and even more so a complete 1910 set, but I must "agree to disagree" about gloss black frogs - I hardly see them anywhere unless they're part of a set.
I always assumed that the matte finish was acid-etched. However, there are some bowls matte on the outside where it doesn't go affect the turned-over rim, so I assume these had an acid-resist mask.
The bowl you have there is blue cloud, but Chris Stewart always maintains there were often differences in the sizes, so these should always be seen as a guide only.