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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: agincourt17 on June 01, 2015, 08:52:45 PM

Title: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on June 01, 2015, 08:52:45 PM: Pieces with the registry date lozenge for 8 June 1878 – Parcel 11 are normally (and ‘correctly’) found adorning pieces from Henry Greener’s RD 322393, a pattern of stylised lanceolate leaves (see my first 2 photos). These pieces often also bear the Henry Greener ‘1st’ lion trademark (lion with star in upper paw).

My 3rd and 4th photos (© 4evervalerie) are, however, of a round dish bearing the registry date lozenge for 8 June 1878 – Parcel 11 and the ‘1st lion trademark’ BUT a completely different decorative pattern (triangular fans alternating with beaded-edged fan roundels on a stippled background).

This is not the only example of Henry Greener pieces with a ‘wayward’ registry date lozenge - for example, GMB has discussed examples of the lozenge for Greener’s registered ‘Peabody’/ Gladstone design finding their way onto pieces with a completely unrelated decorative pattern, and a similar case with the ‘Marquis of Lorne’ butter dish which has a registry mark which corresponds to a different design. – see http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50579.msg286041.html#msg286041

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on June 01, 2015, 09:11:47 PM: Here are photos of two Henry Greener pieces bearing the ‘1st’ lion trademark (usually associated with Henry Greener pieces produced between c 1875 and c 1885) – a clear glass creamer and a black opaque glass jug or pitcher.

(Permission for the re-use of the image of the jug/pitcher on the GMB granted by Cowans Auctions).

Both have the same decorative surface pattern of the alternating triangular fans and fan roundels with a beaded rim on a stippled background as the clear round glass dish with the ‘wayward’ registry date lozenge shown in my opening post. Neither of these two pieces bears a registry date lozenge, and I had always assumed (and will continue to assume, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary) that this alternating triangular and radial fans pattern was from an unregistered Henry Greener design.

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mrs vulture on July 09, 2016, 01:52:09 PM: Just bought myself a black jug as shown , been trying to identify it from the mark on the bottom but it had a straw mark through it so was hard to work out who it was by. I thought Greener and thanks to the message board yet again I found it at last. ;D I couldn't find it elsewhere. It appears black at first glance but with just a little light turns a beautiful cobalt blue. I love this piece. Great condition seeing how old it is. Cheryl
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on July 09, 2016, 02:12:28 PM: I have had mine for a few years now. In a light blue. Its the only one that I have seen at the fairs myself.

Roy
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mrs vulture on July 09, 2016, 02:30:59 PM: I found this one on a car boot sale in Norwich, I like your blue jug too, so it's not too common then? Cheryl
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on July 09, 2016, 02:49:58 PM: No Cheryl not that common. I think I can remember seeing a couple about 10 years ago plus the one I bought in blue which I have had for at least 5 years or more.

Roy
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mrs vulture on July 09, 2016, 02:57:04 PM: I think I can just about find a space somewhere for it ;D had some really great car boot finds this week. Cheryl.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: Paul S. on July 10, 2016, 02:18:42 PM: I've trawled the factory pix for Greener Registrations and can find nothing for the 'alternating triangular fans and fan roundels with a beaded rim on a stippled background' and feel sure Fred's assumption that this pattern was an un-Registered design is correct - I think too many researchers have looked at the archives for this one to have escaped our attention.

Fred - all rather late in the day, but do you want pix of 322393, 231430 or 236921? ... and do you now have my pix re the cross candle stick from a.m. today?

Could be wrong, but assume 'straw marks' are those thin/narrow thread shaped incised rivulets on the surface of the glass - I've always understood they were caused by premature cooling of the glass within the mould - where it didn't flow sufficiently to fill the entire mould.
I believe one of the girls here said they are an urban myth ;)
I think we should all go out with Cheryl on a Sunday morning boot sale hunt.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mrs vulture on July 10, 2016, 04:32:08 PM: Hi Paul, I get up very early in the mornings to go car booting, lots of good places in Norfolk , lots of other people I have got to know looking for glass too. I found a moser bowl for a pound this week, and last Sunday found a R. Lalique volubilis bowl for a pound. Got a house full of nice things. I love a good rummage through the rubbish, lovely when I find something worthwhile, I like finding out who made things and when. Great hobby. Cheryl
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on July 10, 2016, 04:41:50 PM: Sorry for the late reply, Paul, but I have only just got back from managing a Downhill Mountain Bike Race team at a 2-day race meeting in the wilds of Shropshire this weekend.

I would love to see the design representations for RDs 322393, 231430 and 236921, please.

As for the pics of the candlesticks with cross pieces, I’ve just checked my emails but there is nothing in my inbox from you so far today.

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: Paul S. on July 10, 2016, 05:00:37 PM: Cheryl - I'd love to join you, but that tag name worries me too much - I know what vultures do ;) ;D

Having trouble with some emails to you Fred - they've been bouncing back occasionally - I've tried that cross one twice now. How about I put it on the Board instead, or would you prefer it privately?
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: mrs vulture on July 10, 2016, 05:26:29 PM: Paul, I haven't picked the bones of too many men! ;D my husbands nick name since school is Vulture, so I became mrs Vulture, cheryl
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on July 10, 2016, 06:23:24 PM: Thanks for trying with the candlestick pics, Paul.

I think the easiest way is for me to post it as a separate topic with the details and photos I originally sent you, and then you can put the registration details and design representation as a reply. If that gives satisfactory results, I will post the other mystery RDs as individual topics.

I'll try to post the candlestick topic later tonight.

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: Paul S. on July 10, 2016, 06:32:56 PM: o.k. will wait for your post.

Pix now attached of the three Greener items..................... Greener must have been one of the first to use a camera to record their Registration details, so in fact what you see in their original factory representation is usually the real thing.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on July 10, 2016, 07:25:26 PM: Thank you very much, Paul.

Will add them to the GMB RD database tomorrow.

Candlestick post should appear shortly.

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: agincourt17 on July 11, 2016, 01:36:07 PM: Wasn't the quality of the photography superb in those Henry Greener design representations?

Almost 150 years on and, even with all the technical advances in lighting and equipment, most of us still seem to struggle to achieve better results when photographing glassware.

Fred.
Title: Re: Another Henry Greener piece with a ‘wayward’ registry lozenge.
Post by: Paul S. on July 11, 2016, 02:30:36 PM: I agree - extremely good quality for the period - personally, I think that's where Dirk got all his ideas from ;)