Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: auliya on July 03, 2015, 03:05:34 AM
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I recently acquired this frosted lady lamp base and wondered if anyone knew anything about it's origins. It looks very much the same as the ones attributed to Riedel - same size etc, however the base edges do look a little sharper on this one, and it is stamped "Made in Japan". Any information would be gratefully received :-)
thanks
Auliya
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I actually saw & handled one of these about 6 months ago in a small mall, also marked Japan. My problem was I did not have an original to compare size, however I was definately under the impression that the one I held was perhaps a full 1/3 smaller than the original Riedel. There were no holes drilled as for a lamp base & the lamp socket would have to be a small night light type to even come close to fitting. I believed after inspection it was simply meant to function as a candlestick, but I may be mistaken.
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Thanks for your response. This one is the same size as the Riedel one (I found the measurements online as I don't have one) - 8.75 inches (22.3 cms), larger than the Rotterdam base. The candle holder section at the top is much the same size as the Rotterdam, and would take a double sided gallery with the light fitting in the upper section, so the size of the holder part is not important on these. I have attached a photo to show you. The Rotterdam has the type of fitting I mean.
cheers
Auliya
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My fault. I thought the base in question was like the one shown on the left of your photo not the one you show on the right for comparison which is a different base. I thought it was more like this one which has the cord running through the base.
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/Miscellaneous_&_Unknown_-_Lamps/fs_176.JPG
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Someone has told me that they read in a book on Czech glass that during the War, after Germany had invaded, the west was unable to access glass items from the Czech manufacturers, so popular lines were commissioned to be made from copied molds in Japan, by the suppliers in the US. This makes sense but of course is not set in concrete. It also makes sense that they would have been unlikely to use US makers because of copyright issues, which were not a factor in Japan at the time. So, the person telling me this wondered if the date of manufacture on this would be between 1939 and 1941 when America entered the war against Japan.
Does anyone know anything about this?
thanks
Auliya
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No I do not although from a historical standpoint I find that to be close to a fairy tale. The U.S. & Japanese problems with one another started in 1931 with the invasion of Manuchuria & highlighted by the invasion of mainland China in 1937. Japan wanted raw materials beginning in the late 20s & the U.S. & several european nations blocked Japanese efforts to increase their power in asia. The years sandwiched between these dates were anything but cordial especially after 1924 when the U.S. Congress forbade all immigration from Japan. I certainly do not from a historical standpoint see the U.S. entering into any trade agreement pertaining to Japanese for glass imports from 1939 to 1941 leading up to Pearl Harbor. Quite the contrary at that time in history.
Now after the war when we occupied Japan we did allow trade again so it may have been possible if the Czech's glass production was crippled by the military actions of WWII that restrictions were eased...that I do not know.
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I don't think it was suggested it was a US - Japanese trade agreement as such rather an arrangement with a private supplier, but this is just some information that was passed on from someone who had read something in a book on Czech glass. Given there seems to be next to no information around about these lamp bases so I thought I would throw it out there for discussion. Thanks for input. What do you think might be the story behind the MiJ copy? I don't believe it is recent - it looks and feels like it has some age to it
cheers
Auliya
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Ohio - Would it be possible that these were made in Japan in the years after the war, before Europe recovered and started production again? Would the US have imported glass at that time?
cheers
Auliya
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Unlikely. Japan was occupied by the Allies until 1952 and any post-War production would have focused on essentials, not luxuries. There are a lot Japanese ornamental goods found in the UK from the 1950s/60s mostly marked Foreign (in the UK we wouldn't have purchased anything marked Germany or Japan for quite a long period post-War), so yours may date from this period when Japan was trying to earn foreign currency or have been produced under licence pre-War.
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Hi Auliya...it was me who you had this discussion with on facebook...just to clarify, it was an article I read in a book referring to Czech perfume bottles not this actual piece...the perfume bottles are reproductions of Czech moulds which is why they differ in sizes and details slightly, not copies meant to deceive rather a way of selling good design to the masses rather than collectors. Some perfume bottle are marked Made in Japan or even Made in Occupied Japan. Bottles are still reproduced them today now with original moulds that have been rediscovered since the Czech Republic became independent. They appear on auction sites all the time and are easily identified as 'modern'. No doubt importers in countries not at war with Japan had no problem buying such pieces when the real thing was no longer available. I don't think I suggested the allies would have bought Japanese goods during the war. Though you never know.
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Thanks Angela and Christine - I somehow managed to get that muddled up, lol. It is certainly hard to get any concrete information about this lamp base/candlestick. I can't even find if anyone has seen another one the same. Ohio mentions seeing one (or similar) but much smaller, this one is the same size as the Riedel ones. Still, perhaps something will surface eventually :-)
cheers
Auliya
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Yes indeed Auliya...hopefully someone has a hidden stash of catalogues somewhere just waiting to be discovered...wouldn't that be fantastic, although it is fun researching these 'unknown' pieces because I always find bits of information on other pieces though rarely on the actually piece I am researching....lol ;D
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Not certain but perhaps I can add a bit to what Angela stated. Now pictured is an imported Japanese perfume to the U.S. by Irving Rice, probably the most successful & influencial overall vanity importer in U.S. history as they have been in business importing Czech, West Germany, Japan, and finally Taiwan vanity items for at least 8 decades. I bought this 12/14 at a large local monthly show at our state fairgrounds from a quite knowledgable vanity items Japanese lady. She stated it was from the late 1950s & we had a brief discussion centering on if the label was removed it could easily pass as Deco style Czech. I bought it as a documentary example of what IRice was importing during this time period, took a picture & put it in my mall intact with label & documentation.
Of course you can imagine what happened next. A fellow dealer bought it (I know this because another dealer saw the dealer go to my showcases & buy it as soon as I left) immediately removed the Japan Import label & renamed it 30's Czech in his showcase with a 50% markup. Typical behavior.
Anyway it might (or might not) help add to the topic.
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Ohio...Anne and I are having a discussion about Japanese bottles in the Glass trinket set section ...would you post your comment there too please it is very interesting...thanks
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Simba...Done. Ken
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Could Irving Rice have also imported lamps like Auliya's ...there is a section on Irving Rice in the book on Czech Perfume bottles by Jacquelyne Jones-North I am reading ...I haven't read all that section yet but I see they imported all sorts of 'Boudoir' items like Clocks, hand mirrors, powder bowls etc ?
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I would say absolutely. Irving Rice was a large importer for decades. If you go the eBay U.S. & type in irice perfume it will bring up hundreds of bottles. Have to say though that I think thats a blank that can be used as a candlestick & also be used as a lamp base as I had one several year ago & it was properly drilled for the cord & socket not the water lamp type of connection that does not enter the glass.