Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: boxed on July 04, 2015, 07:49:44 PM
-
Hi guys
im trying to find out if this whitefriars trial weight was made in a limited number ive looked in the catalogue but no mention of how many pieces were made
if anyone can help that be fantastic it has the p2 style facets and is on a light green base
Cheers
boxed
(Joe)
-
Hi Joe you need to ask Tony Graham he has fully researched the Whitefriars weights with the help of Ray Annenberg and Brian Slingsby . cheers jp
-
Hi jp thanks for pointing me in the right direction this is the weight in question
cheers
joe
-
Hi Joe i saw one of those at the weekend in Auction but it had an S engraved on the base that means a second , i could see nothing wrong with it but Whitefriars were very strict on their better quality weights .
-
This is the same one pj i did ask the auction they say its in good condition and its a no5 rather then an s
i did think that myself but wasnt sure if whitefriars fid seconds so took the risk knowing my luck it will be an s for second
cheers joe
-
Joe its a nice weight and quite rare with that colour base if i were still collecting i would have bid , two years ago you would have had to pay a lot more for it , Tony will let you know more , in my opinion you got it at a reasonable price . some Auction houses are a tad Cavalier with their information . cheers jp .
-
I think your right about auction houses and what they describe
thanks for your comments jp
cheers
joe
-
Hi.
My understanding from Brian Slingsby (ex Whitefriars Technical Director) is that the 'S' stood for shop - ie pieces sold through the factory shop. Some of these were seconds quality, but other were just trial pieces or unsold stock. It is not unknown for unscrupulous sellers to add other numbers to pretend that the 'S' is a five - it still looks like an 'S' though!
Alan
-
Hi alan
your right it is an s i did try to convince myself overwise :)
thanks for your input as always
joe
-
Hi Joe
I have seen several of these weights with either a green or blue base and I thought the canes in these were called "Florets". I have never heard of the S mark standing for shop, I always thought it was for Second as if Whitefriars sold pristine pieces in their shop at reduced prices cheaper than their retailers it could have caused problems so they were marked with an S to avoid this problem. Here is a picture of my copy of this weight with fancy cutting
Dave
-
Opps - guess what I forgot to do !!
Dave
-
***
Hi Dave
I was told that the 'first' quality pieces sold in the shop were stock that had not been taken by the retailers in previous years - so there would be no real conflict.
Here is another example of the design - without facets.
Alan
-
Thanks for the added info dave :)
joe
-
Hi Joe,
your paperweight is a PR402 which was a production item and not a trial.
I think the auction house are being disingenuous here!!! Or do I mean, they are lying!
The reason I say that, is that I contacted them about this very example and gave them a full explanation of the "S" on the base and its model number. They acknowledged my comments and accepted my reasoning. To later call it a "5" is very naughty.
There were a lot of this model PR402 that carried an "S" on the base. That suggests that either they were difficult to make (I can't see why this should be the case), or an inexperienced person made them ( also no evidence) or finally that they indeed had a lot left over from a production run. In my view, after having looked at several of these, I think this last explanation is the most likely and that your example is perfectly good quality sold off through the staff shop!!
Good luck with it and enjoy it,
Regards, Tony
-
Hi tony
thanks for clearing this up i suppose auction houses are a little bit naughty with discriptions
Thanks for the info i can use if i come across another similar piece
all my best
joe
-
Joe i also told them it was an s , i have even had s weights with a sticker stuck poorly over the S , one like yours without the S sold for over £400 a couple of years back .
-
Naughty or not, I think there is another explanation. I've found that auction houses are very cautious on accepting new information from potential bidders. They are not experts and have to use considerable discretion as to whether or not to pass on information not published in the original listing. The danger is obvious, someone may be attempting to influence the bids. At best, I would expect the auctioneer to announce that the listing may be in error and the bidders who are uncertain should not bid.
I remember one particular auction (in the US) which advertised a New England Carpet Glass Company Ground paperweight. I went to the auction, viewed a Murano carpet ground (not NEGC), and informed the auctioneer who acknowledged that several others had already shared that information. During the auction, the auctioneer stated that the attribution was in question and that if you were uncertain what you are bidding on, please don't bid. The paperweight in question sold for about $1,000 US. Doubting my own judgement, I was in line behind the winning bidder and asked to examine the paperweight again when he was checking out. It was still a Murano. He noted that I had purchased a Baccarat closepack signed 1849 (no B) and informed me that it was a fake date. I chose not to correct him. ;D ;D