Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: rosieposie on July 26, 2015, 09:22:07 PM
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Does anybody know when Mdina Seahorses were first made and if they were made before Michael Harris first went to Mdina with Eric Dobson?
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There was no glass industry in Malta before Michael Harris (1968) and I believe the seahorses were post-Harris (1972)
(Don't get over-involved Rosie, leave them to their delusions.)
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I have a vague memory (presumably from Mr Hill's book) that the seahorses came about after a commission for a chess set was undertaken. Presumably the horse piece was developed but eight pawns in the shape of seahorses would also have looked good!
John
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I have always held the belief that the "seahorses" showed a resemblance to the Knight in the classic standard Staunton chess set shown here..........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staunton_chess_set
My dated 1973 example ....
The Knights of Malta are of course very much part of Malta's history and the design could be representative of this...or started off that way perhaps.
Cheers, Mike
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The paperweights with knops on top were the pawns. Both "chess" pieces were made in abundance.
To my knowledge they are Said designs, I've only heard the same story as John has, that a chess set was commissioned some time shortly after MH left.
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Dear God!!!! What is this mythfest :) Does no one remember previous post when I went to Malta :D
I have visited the Mdina factory in Malta and spoke to Joseph Said about these. They were designed and originally made by Vicente Boffo about 1972-73 and are not chess pieces as sometimes suggested. (These were also made with the help of Jim Munnelly who was Boffo’s servitor)
The earliest dated examples I know of are dated 1973.
The first ones were the ‘punk’ examples with about 5 pulled spikes around the head and the nose facing forward.
Then there is second type which has a more flat mane and is pinched 5 or 6 times done the mane, these are also found dated 1973.
As time went on the pinches on the mane became less and nose dropped lower and lower.
Boffo and Munnelly both left in early 1975 and the horses were made someone else and the shape became altered.
By the end of the 1970s the pinches had all but disappeared and the mane became one long flattened pinch.
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Here is an early one........
Undated and it has a broken top mane pull that I have 'repaired' courtesy of Photoshop. :)
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Thank you all for your very interesting and informative help and pictures.
(Christine, I think you are right..... thankyou.)
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original info here,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,41620.40.html#quickreply
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Hi WhatHo,
Once again you have told it how it is.......... :)
This is what you said about Boffo and his friggers............
Joseph Said also said that boffo made Friggers for the first 2 years, in his lunch breaks and at weekends. WF style penguins, fish, bowls were mentioned, in Mdina colours, yes please!!!!!! He has a Boffo Mdina fish at the factory (which his mother broke, grim) but couldn't locate it, I was dying for a quick snap of that! Wolfie
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Hi Wolfie,
I well remember your visit to Malta and contributed to your post with the very same ' horse paperweight' pictured here in this thread.
Joseph Said sounds like a really lovely chap and you must have been thrilled to meet him and talk about Mdina.
He did describe them as ' horse paperweights' and not seahorses ....at least it clears that one up.
The Knight chess piece is essentially a horse....nothing more or less. If it is made of glass it can act as a paperweight ....obviously ;)
I think this 'horse paperweight ' was initially based on a knight chess piece design as I mentioned above...an uncanny resemblance ( IMHO )
So mythfest or not I believe the design was inspired by a knight chess piece of the Staunton variety .
I've added some pics of another early example (with no neck what-so-ever :o :-X )
Have you spoken to Jim Munnelly about these to get his opinion of the design ?
Cheers Mike & thanks for all your research on the subject & thanks too, Rosie, for posting the subject !!
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Hi Mike, I have to disagree, there are no facts to back that up. On speaking Joseph he said these were nothing to do with chess pieces.
Just because something looks like something else doesn't mean it was inspired by it.
The myth about chess pieces has been stamped out and IMHO I don't think it is good for research to talk about these horse paperweights with any reference to chess pieces.
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I think the info. has stuck in my brain this time, Wolfie. ;D
I promise I will not promulgate the myth any further and will denounce it when I see it in future. 8)
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Wrist slapped. ;D
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Hi,
Firstly I share WhatHo’s opinion that these were NEVER part of a Chess set .................but have an open mind to whether they were inspired by a chess piece. Unless Joseph Said specifically asked Boffo, we can never know for sure how he had come up with this design.
What is unquestionable is the amazing success of this design that has been produced in huge quantities . It can be likened to the Whitefriars duck that was inspired by a Baccarat duck ( I have this on good authority by an ex worker ).
Just my thoughts,
Patrick.
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Thanks Wolfie ,
Is that checkmate then for my little theory ?...I guess so ;)
Many designs can be interpreted differently ...depending on who is looking at them.
As Patrick said ...I too will continue to keep an open mind.
I really like these pieces and they have been copied too, by other Maltese glass companies ...a real fitting tribute to Boffo .
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Myths are easily perpetuated, especially with the help of 'tinternet. In many situations it is probably much easier to start a myth than spend time and effort researching. Then there is the propensity for us hairless chimps to believe a well told story....
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Hi,
Here is an image of the head of the horse that Boffo made whilst at Whitefriars...........
You can clearly see crimps rather than pulls.
Regards,
Patrick.
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Hi, what is nick named 'punk' style is the type that is in Mikes Reply #10. The mane hasn't been crimped flat and has only been pinched out with thin nosed pliers.
All other Horse paperweights have the mane pulled out flat first (as in the horse above) and then dents pinched into it.
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I really like these pieces and they have been copied too, by other Maltese glass companies ...a real fitting tribute to Boffo .
Like my Mtarfa fish one! :) http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60280.0.html
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Hi,
Just bought this early one with damaged ear...... Only £4.99
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Oh, I looked at that one Patrick, but decided against it with the damage! So you were lucky! :)
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Here is a line-up of my three early examples, the one on the left is the 1973 dated one. They are all approx 11cm tall. Two crimps & one punk !:D
Cheers, Mike
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Anne , thanks for the link...it reminds me of this ugly (?) fellow !
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44406.0.html
Another relevant link.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60445.0.html
Cheers, Mike
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Here is a Phoenician one on ebay Germany...........
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mdina-Glas-Malta-Glaspferd-Glasfigur-/221209378230?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_16&hash=item33811b3db6
Cheers, Mike
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That is exactly like a Mdina one, must be made by the same hand surely?
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It could have been made by an ex-Mdina glassblower I guess. The white label "Hand made in Malta " is a label I have seen on signed Phoenician pieces . I have a whole bunch of photos of Phoenician glass downloaded from the internet . :D
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Not sure if this one is early but one of the nicer ones and quite large at over 7"
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That is not an early Chris.
The early tend to be 4"-4 1/2" tall, head facing forward and mane starting on the back of the head not the top.
This is a good example of an early, signed Mdina Malta 1973. 4 1/8", head looking forward, rear mane with small pinches.
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Thanks Wolf
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They were officially called seahorse paperweights, as seen in a 1970s Dexam marketing leaflet
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No they weren't, not at Mdina. I don't know who Dexam is and have never seen this leaflet but Joseph Said said they were called Horse Paperweights and specified 'not' seahorse. Can you show this leaflet please?
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Dexam was the sole UK distributor from 1970 http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,58293.0.html
This is a post Harris but definitely 1970s leaflet but the pictures are not mine to show.
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This is probably how the seahorse myth started then. Who's ever pics they are can you ask them to share please?
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It's hardly a myth if that is how they were being marketed in the UK . You are relying on Joseph Said's memory of 40+ years ago and he was more making than marketing then.
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Hear Hear Christine
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No they weren't, not at Mdina.
I think Wolfie is saying that in the factory people referred to them as horse paperweights........ It could well be that a marketing leaflet might flower it up with the 'Seahorse' name.
Christine......... Could you ask if you can share the leaflet as it sounds an important piece of research material.
Regards,
Patrick.
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In 1977 we drove down to the Dexam showroom in Haslemere and bought Mdina and Lalique for our shop, Coleridge of Highgate.
Dexam marketed them as Seahorse paperweights. They were very popular.
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The Dexam catalogue is copyrighted. The images cannot be posted for legal reasons.
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Thought I would add this early style one , it's unusual in that it is black with added blue . I first thought it was very dark blue but it isn't . You can see blue has been added on top of the black . Perhaps made with recycled glass ?
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Correction....it's very dark blue not black , looks black from the base as there is no clear core. Thanks Christine for pointing that out . ;)