Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: alpha on August 11, 2015, 12:29:53 AM
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Whose canes are these: early Strathearn, Jack Allen, late Strathearn, Paul Ysart. Butterflies and eight cog canes I'm pretty sure are Ysart. Thoughts?
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what is the prize for getting them all :D
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Since I don't know the answers myself (even though I should), I think of it more as an intellectual experience. I just don't seem to know my English and Scottish stuff as well as I should, especially when the canes are by themselves and not in a paperweight.
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HI There
It would help if your pictures were bigger and they could be blown up to see more detail but the limit of picture size on this board will not allow this. I think some, if not the majority of your canes could be Strathearn and Ysart and here are two pictures from my cane collection showing a selection of their canes so you can see the similarity.
Hope this is of interest
Dave
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The OP's picture could be much bigger; it is only 14 kb. Pictures of a few canes at a time might be good too
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I believe most are Ysart Brothers / "Salvador Ysart 1930s".
Canes 2 C and 4 D (one of the butterfly canes) are included in the well-published images of a selection of "Salvador canes" - see, for example, inside covers of Bob Hall's Scottish Paperweights book.]
Note that the two Butterfly canes are different. The one at 1 C is an example that I had only seen in some Paul Ysart weights, until a few weights turned up with that cane and which were clearly Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
It was the use of the 4 D cane in both Paul's work and Ysart Brothers & later Vasart (etc.) that gave the first clear evidence of "1930s cane sharing" at the time when Paul stayed at Moncrieff's and his brothers and father formed Ysart Brothers Glass. The 1 C cane has now been confirmed as also being a "shared cane".
[Above two paragraphs edited to get my info straight!]
Three that I cannot determine are: 3 C, 4 C & 6 C (need close-up details of each)
Ones that are possibly Ysart Brothers / "Salvador Ysart 1930s", but which I do not recall seeing before are: 5 A, 3 D, 1 E and 7 E (close-up views would be useful as the internal elements may prove what they are)
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Sorry, I'm giving up on the frustration of getting the pictures of the individual canes cropped and into the right 125kb size. Maybe tomorrow night.
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pic
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Thanks for the individual cane pics. Taking them in order, top to bottom, I believe they are:
1. (5 C cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers
2. (4 C cane) = Strathearn (but uses some elements from the pre-56 years)
3. (3 C cane) = Not sure; Strathearn likely but might be Perthshire Paperweights?
4. (2 D cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers
5. (3 D cane) = Strathearn?; looks too neat for "early" and uses teal colour but also has elements from pre-56 years
6. (5 B cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers (quite tidy and all elements seem to be "early")
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Thank you Kevin - 6x more close-ups.
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And one more.
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For the five above ...
a) (1 E cane) I have never seen that cane before. Very unusual with the striped effect for the outer part, rather than a regular colour coating. I would say it is not pre-56. Maybe Strathearn??
b) (7 E cane) Most likely Vasart Ltd (i.e. 1956 to 1964). The outer canes are very similar in structure to ones seen in various Vasart Ltd inkwells.
c) (5 A) My guess is Strathearn, but I don't recognise it. I don't think Salvador / Ysart Brothers used "bullseye" elements like that one in the centre.
d) (6 A) Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
e) (4 B & 3 E) I think Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers is possible .. but I don't recall seeing another example.
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As usual - great help Kevin - so I'm loading some more pictures...
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pic
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For that latest batch of five, most which have interesting features ...
1. (5 E cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers
Note the distinctive "three-pointed geometric ends" to an eight-point star pattern, near the top of the close up image. That mould shape may been used for more canes in Strathearn weights than early Ysart ones. In fact, I used to think it was a clear indicator for Strathearn weights. But close inspection of various Salvador / Ysart Brothers weights eventually showed up uses of that mould.
2. (2 C cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
Note that the enlarged image clearly shows blue as a coating to the seven outer row canes. But the blue is not obvious in the group photo. The example of that cane within the published group of "Salvador Canes" (e.g. as shown in the book Scottish Paperweights) seems to have no blue ... but with a high mag loupe, hints of blue can be seen. I have also noted the blue within one of those of canes in a weight (unfortunately I do not have an example in my collection).
3. (6 C cane) This a new cane to me and I do not know who made it, or where.
The upper wing canes seem to be "Salvador / YB" and the lower wing canes could also be early (a shaped cog cane). The antennae are clearly formed from a flattened cane with a white core and orange sleeve. That sort of work for the antennae is different from the other "Ysart butterfly canes" I have seen.
Note also that the outer white / blue is the same as in the cane at 3 C in the group photo. That "sloping cog" (or shall we call it a "chainsaw tooth"?) is distinctive and is something that appears quite often in some PY weights. However I doubt that either of the 3 C or 6 C canes were made by PY!
4. (1 C cane) = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers
This cane is less well known than the usual one seen in several Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers weights (and also in many PY weights) and shown as the 4 D cane in the group photo and also in the Scottish Paperweights, and other books).
5. (5 D cane) = Very probably Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers (and if so, it is a NEW ONE for me !!)
The overall look and the consistency with the other Ysart butterfly canes is obvious. Also the wing canes are the same as the lower wing canes in the 1 C example of the group photo. However, the green body with black head and black antennae, that do not seem to be flattened cog canes, are ringing faint bells with me for which I cannot pinpoint the source!
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Thanks Kevin - and since we've come this far, might as well finish off the lot.
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and again - and we'll post the last ones tomorrow
[Mod: last image (untitled-8b) of this set was the same cane as #4 (untitled-4b) in the previous reply. Duplicate removed.]
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That batch of seven above are all Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
For #1 and #3, I don't recall an exact match but there are known canes which look very similar.
Also, for the #1 cane, note the central three-cane group. That motif is well known in canes from the Ysart Brothers (or earlier) years.
Edited to add, for clarification ...
The three-cane central motif, although certainly much used in the Ysart Brothers period (and earlier?), was also used in Vasart Ltd weights. So that feature cannot be used alone to attribute an item to Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
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Thanks Kevin. If you'll PM your address I'd be pleased to send a couple of the duplicates.
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Having sought another opinion and also having looked through The Complete Guide to Perthshire Paperweights, I am reasonably sure that the canes 3 C and 6 C are most likely from Perthshire Paperweights.
Among the "picture canes" of Perthshire Paperweights are versions of butterflies made in the "Ysart style" as opposed to being formed from a multitude of tiny rods. Also, a 20-point cog mould was often used - as is the case with the 3 C and 6 C canes here. Those points, together with the clean and tidy look to the canes are my reasons for homing in on Perthshire Paperweights.
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And the very last ones.
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and
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All of the final batch = Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers.
Note that the last one (6 D cane) has a surround which seems to be either ...
a) a white coating over a multiple-toothed inner section
or
b) made up of many rods rather than a regular coating
Both of those style of outer coating can be seen in some other "Salvador / Ysart Brothers" canes, although they are not common.
See pic below for an example of the "many rods" style of outer "sleeve" - which is composed of at least 60 rods of yellow (or amber) over a white core.