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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brucebanner on October 28, 2015, 04:13:07 PM

Title: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on October 28, 2015, 04:13:07 PM
Any thoughts on this one, full of bubbles, no lead crystal ring and a folded foot with base wear, it looks very similar to the decanter on page 64 of Leslie Jacksons Whitefriars book.

4 3/4 inches in height, 5 1/2 inches at the widest diameter and 4 1/2 inches across the base.

regards Chris.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on October 29, 2015, 11:23:34 AM
Has it got a snapped off pontil up in the base?
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on October 29, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
Harry Powells 'Glasses with Histories' has a near identical piece which is numbered 1344, its from the German, Flemish and Dutch glass section, which are drawings taken from museum pieces in 1904. But with these streams of bubbles I  think it can not be Powell, maybe its an old Germanic piece, also the colour doesn't strike me as German and I would expect to see a snapped pontil in the base. The base to my eye bulges down and looks more modern.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on October 29, 2015, 12:15:38 PM
No snapped pontil, the inner base bulges outwards, and the inner bowl upwards, definitely bubbles they look like tiny overshot particles, they form dimples and tiny bumps on the outer and inner surface, more so on the upper bowl than the foot.

If it's in the Powell book (which it looks like i'm going to have to get a copy of) it's either by Powell or a modern copy.

Here is a closer pick of the surface and the base rim which feels well worn to the touch.

Thanks for your help i really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on October 29, 2015, 09:36:59 PM
Hi Bruce, I will send you a pic of the line drawing taken from the MOL book, i wont be allowed to show it here. The pat No 1344 I can not find a drawings or photos off in all my research notes, so I dont what it should exactly look like. But what ever, with this bubbly glass it is not Powell, my feeling is considering the base and the glass it is modern Czech repro.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on October 29, 2015, 10:02:17 PM
A good learning curve for everyone that reads this in the future, It makes you wonder how many other shapes are being copied.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on November 04, 2015, 07:03:44 AM
A few weeks ago i put this piece on www.whitefriars.com on the forum, a global mod has got back to me today and has said it's by Harry Powell and dates between 1903-10, the reason it's not lead crystal is because its soda glass and the colour called alsation blue. He has put another piece same size and style on there, I'm just waiting for permission to link the two together.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on November 04, 2015, 07:40:33 AM
Yes I know Steve. I might well be wrong but I am still concerned about the quality of the glass and the base is finished. Although Alsatian Blue is a soda glass it would not full of streams of bubbles.
http://www.whitefriars.com/smf1/index.php/topic,5825.0.html
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: johnphilip on November 04, 2015, 06:38:11 PM
Chris i have known Steve for a lifetime and i dont believe in experts but Steve is the nearest you will get , especially on Powell glass .  To doubt him is like saying the All  Blacks cant play Rugby . imho .
Must say i thought it was right also  , just a gut feeling for me .

Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on November 04, 2015, 07:26:02 PM
hahahaa
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on November 04, 2015, 08:33:32 PM
It's beautifully made and when you look at the Powell in Jacksons book there are so many similarities to other bits in there especially the upper rim, i'm guessing there are not many around so perhaps it's never been photographed before especially close up.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: stevejl on November 05, 2015, 06:13:59 AM
Chris,

Posting this in WF.com and here - Happy for these topics to be linked - the more the merrier   :)
 
The puntee in my piece IS cracked, but I suspect this is because it comprises different colours (amethyst & flint) and is therefore built differently rather than because yours is not Powell. In another single-colour piece I have from the Woodchester range with the same flaring foot, the base of the bowl where it joins the foot is smooth, as is yours. It's always difficult to imagine the sequence by which the chair would assemble these pieces, but there is a difference between a single-colour or multi-colour piece, and I believe this accounts for the puntee.
 
The bubbles in the glass - I agree this is not usual in Powell glass, but believe it is outweighed by the design similarities.
I note Wolfie's reference to pattern 1344 - the shape is identical, but larger at 6.5" in height, and 9" in diameter. I don't see this as an obstacle, given the same size between your piece and mine.
 
In summary - I stick with my original vote for this as Powell, and a VERY nice piece            :)

.......and thank you John (yes, we did do rather well in the rugby world cup    ;D )
 
Cheers,                  Steve L        :)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: johnphilip on November 06, 2015, 08:43:07 AM
 Alsation Blue . Soda Lime glass coloured Blue with iron , Powells own description , maybe the Iron causes variation in the glass quality  What say the Boffins ?

Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on November 06, 2015, 07:33:32 PM
Thanks Steve, thought it best to ask before linking topics, the problem is not really knowing how glass of an age  is made is a real headache, some Victorian glass has no rough or polished pontil or shear mark and on the other end some later glass still has the t shaped shear mark, rough and polished pontil.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: WhatHo! on November 07, 2015, 10:57:20 AM
That T shaped scratch is a gadget mark.
Back to the original piece, I am following up some leads and they are pointing towards this being repro. I am waiting on confirmation and I hope to give you the name of the maker soon. And it won't be Powell :)
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: brucebanner on November 07, 2015, 11:29:50 AM
We have had this argument before, the gadget mark is the horse shoe shape on top of the foot made by the gadget and the shear mark on the base is the shape made when the glass is cut.

Here are some picks of gadget marks.
Title: Re: Whitefriars Powell ? sky blue prunted vase? help please.
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 08, 2015, 08:09:28 PM
I agree with Chris. That's a shear mark. You quite often see it on handpressed glass too, as the gobs of glass were manually cut