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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on May 09, 2016, 12:50:59 PM

Title: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: glassobsessed on May 09, 2016, 12:50:59 PM
Branded as Caithness but with a made in China label.  :(

The Scavo vase was quite nice, not the best photos though.

John
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: ahremck on May 10, 2016, 12:17:30 PM
The Caithness making company I found on Alibaba.com a few nights ago.  I was astounded.

Ross
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 10, 2016, 12:44:40 PM
 ;D
I've found true Caithness weights in TKMaxx before.
It's more a matter of; buyer - have panic attacks, become stultified by the array of wrong stuff and triple check everything, rather than just "beware". ::)
Just like a supermarket!
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: flying free on May 10, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
That Chinese base is good. 
I bought one about 10 years ago in pale blue with white (might have bought two and used them for flowers for something iirc) and the base finish was shocking.
m
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: Anne on May 10, 2016, 03:47:30 PM
Maybe the improvement is as a result of the migration of master glassmakers from eastern Europe, that's been referred to before in posts. :)
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: misha on May 10, 2016, 04:00:40 PM
Improvement in production or not, marketed as a brand that it is not is SHAMELESS.

Surely there are trading Standards there to remedy this sort of thing, or is the little [easy remove] sticker enough to get past the regulations.
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: Anne on May 10, 2016, 04:41:03 PM
Ahhh it's not fraudulent though. I understand that Caithness is a brand name now not a production company, so they buy in from various places and sell under their own name. It's not uncommon for many big names to outsource production to China or eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: misha on May 10, 2016, 06:47:39 PM
Ahhh it's not fraudulent though. I understand that Caithness is a brand name now not a production company, so they buy in from various places and sell under their own name. It's not uncommon for many big names to outsource production to China or eastern Europe.

Yes, understood. 

And I understand the consequences of doing so.  A flood of cheap look-alikes appearing on-line and in discount shops. 
Outsourced production all too often ends up as loss of consumer confidence in the brand name due to sub-standard merchandise in the marketplace.

e.g. As much as I loved my 1st pair of Koss porta-pro headphones with their unconditional, no questions asked, fixed even if dog chewed, take it back to retailer or mail in service, fixed for free lifetime warranty.... when lost by theft and replaced with an online purchase that looked OK, turned out to be poor quality transducers installed in very genuine looking body frame.  Koss outsourced production to China from USA and lost control.  All components probably came from same factory and plastic mould sets, but the key components [speaker/transducers] were sub-standard junk. Heck, even with my industrial/loud venue hearing damage I can sure tell junk at any volume.  No Koss warranty in replacements of this cheap copy stuff, imposable to tell difference buying on-line [had to due to living in regional redneck wonderland Western Australia]

Anyhow, not just audio equipment made as cheap branded cruddy quality knock-offs.
Not just the likes of a formerly well regarded Co. like Koss loosing all consumer confidence very quickly. 

Heard the saying?......
A good reputation is hard earned over a long time, BUT easily lost in an instant.

Thats,  SO IT GOES.
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 10, 2016, 07:16:00 PM

Whether something is fraudulent or not depends entirely on what completely arbitrary laws are made.
Laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen.

As far as I'm concerned, this is fraudulant and dishonest and it is completely morally repugnant.
And so are any arbitrary laws which permit it. :P

Drano.  ;)
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: KevinH on May 11, 2016, 12:04:11 AM
Maybe thoughts about the morality of "branded products" in the sense discussed in this thread, could be a reasonable discussion in the Cafe?

But here's another thought ...

What if a company had no specific brand of its own within a certain product line but simply outsourced a couple of lines and sold them as their own; would that be immoral? Examples of this were two types of millefiori paperweight sold by Edinburgh Crystal; the first were made in Murano and the second were made by Caithness Glass.
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: misha on May 11, 2016, 04:23:06 AM
Good idea Kevin, it could be a reasonable discussion in the Cafe, with reason.

Care to initiate that?

Briefly, on your thought question... It comes down to Corporate identity doesn't it and those who decide that [no doubt for profit taking motivation] their manufacturing identity and heritage can be sold off.... and it would follow, to those that value truth and heritage would be disgusted.

I suggest there is a huge difference between creators and marketers, the only common ground being production.  What disgusts me most is that the least productive in the whole chain [and society generally, not those people actually making crafting something] end up being paid the most.

You cite the Marketing house 'brand'. They are nothing more.  The inferred quality and history through use of a geographic name is clearly a marketing ploy.. stronger word would be sham, in my opinion. 
But for a long established manufacturer known as such to 'out-source'... I call that a sell-out and, so it goes, due loss of credibility and reputation.

The only means of saving credibility in this case would to be the indelible marking of product so that the buyer full well knows 'what, 'where' and 'who' made an item.

Sorry, not brief. 
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: Wuff on May 11, 2016, 10:31:27 AM
What if a company had no specific brand of its own within a certain product line but simply outsourced a couple of lines and sold them as their own; would that be immoral? Examples of this were two types of millefiori paperweight sold by Edinburgh Crystal; the first were made in Murano and the second were made by Caithness Glass.
We should clearly differentiate two different categories:
1) A company selling stuff, produced by someone else under commission, under his own name, and
2) a company selling something, produced by "themselves" (whatever that may mean) under a different (well established) name.

The "Edinburgh" weights fall into the first category - the weight starting this discussion into the second (whilst I don't know, whether "Caithness Glass" is a protected brand name - or anyone can name a product line "Caithness").
Title: Re: Surprises in TK Maxx today - Chinese Caithness & Scavo
Post by: Lustrousstone on May 11, 2016, 10:56:35 AM
Caithness Glass is an EU trademark covering almost anything you could imagine https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/4/EU005854682 and it is owned by Dartington.

This outsourcing and applying a brand name has been prevalent for years over many products. What many "collectors" don't realise is that consumers don't often care where something comes from, just that the product meets their requirements, whatever they are.