Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Scott13 on May 14, 2016, 12:36:48 PM
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Any help in identifying this vase would be greatly appreciated :)
It looks like crystal.
Quite heavy, just over 1kg.
It's 15cms high.
The lenses are raised and concave.
There's quite a bit of base wear.
I can't find any mould seams.
The rim has been ground and polished.
To me, it has an Art Deco look.
Do you think it could be a Czech piece?
Many thanks
Scott
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Hi Scott - always possible this could be a Czechoslovakian piece - together with Germany they have made a lot of cut glass like this, with substantial amounts of cutting, but regret I can't help with a maker - you'll have seen in recent times other comments here about the difficulties of trying to find attributions for much C20 cut glass - however, this shape couldn't be produced by pressing.
It's attractive and see where you're coming from re the art deco suggestion, particularly the effect of the radiating straight line cuts - but my opinion is that it's a little over-fussy and too much cutting to be pure art deco. Date wish I'd suggest 1960s - 1980s, but could be wrong, and perhaps later even. Art deco is the description we apply to a style, not specifically to pieces produced between the two wars, so in effect you could make a piece of art deco now - provided it conformed to those mainly linear design elements which seem to have had their origin in the 1920 - 30 period.
I'm never quite sure what people mean when they say 'crystal' .... is it simply an alternative description for cut glass?? - assume it applies to clear glass only?
If you angle reflected light into the larger mitres, you should be able to see remains of the coarse grinding/cutting marks - they're never removed entirely, and should be proof that the design is cut rather than pressed.
Nice piece - let's hope someone might recognize the design - but I wouldn't hold your breath :)
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Hi Paul, so it seems that I've unwittingly bought a piece of cut glass- can't say I'm unhappy ;D
I really couldn't believe that anyone could cut glass, with such perfection, hence my conclusion that it had to be a pressed glass piece.
And of course I should have known that a plunger wouldn't work with this sort of shape :-\
Still haven't been able to find ( under 10x magnification and a lot of tilting )any lines left by the cutter-but I'll keep looking :)
Many thanks for your reply
Scott
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keep looking - am sure you will find some faint marks within one or two of the cuts somewhere. It's unfortunate that the 1920s innovative process which benefited cut glass i.e. acid washing to speed up removal of the grinding marks, also helped to destroy the sharpness of the design. Acid removes a few microns of the glass and in the process also blunts the feel of the design - but then compared to standing in front of a polishing machine for hours going over the entire design with wooden wheels, polishing compounds and putty etc. was no joke.
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I had a good look recently, and I've seen what you're talking about Paul, and yes, the difference is ... well I can only say this for myself ... very disappointing.
I'm sorry to constantly bring VSL up, but under the new direction, they have started using this method too, acid dipping after the pattern's been cut. The result, as you mentioned, is not as neat nor sharp and the item doesn't reflect and sparkle as a traditional cut pattern. Putting one next to the other makes it really obvious.
I'm sure this is done to cut costs and time on production, but, and again I say this purely for myself, any company who uses this type of technique, doesn't do itself any favours quality wise. Maybe a little harsh to say so but I can't help feeling that a company's letting itself down, that something could have been done better, standards kept up and a company name held up high, because it has been done traditionally in the past.
"I'm never quite sure what people mean when they say 'crystal' .... is it simply an alternative description for cut glass?? - assume it applies to clear glass only?"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood that crystal, whatever the colour might be, contains more lead, making it softer and therefor easier to cut, whereas glass itself is much harder.
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hello Anne - thanks for your comments. My knowledge of cut glass and related processes is really confined to British material, and the use of acid to speed up the polishing process on cut glass, in the U.K., seems to have started c. 1920. As a method of removing layers of glass, the use of acid goes back a lot further, and the idea of using it in other ways can't have been lost on many people in the glass trade - just think of all the cameo work mostly on the Continent, during the art nouveau period. Even Galle seems to have twigged that the benefits of acid as opposed to hand carving were of value.
I'm surprised at your comments that VSL have 'started' using this method - although I have very limited experience of this factory, I'd have assumed that like the U.K., VSL would have been doing acid a long time ago. ;) Regret I don't know when the 'new direction' began for VSL - please tell me.
Do you think it's true to say that generally the public wouldn't appreciate the difference between cut glass polished by hand compared with acid finishing, particularly since most of them would never have seen the real thing, and they all perhaps think that what they now buy is how it should look.
You may well be correct in your definition of 'crystal' - since it seems to make sense that cut glass will reflect light - appearing to sparkle as crystal, and you are certainly correct that the addition of lead to the batch does create a softer, more light reflective material that is easier to cut. But I do get the impression that the glass needs to be cut in order to be termed crystal - otherwise a piece of uncut glass won't sparkle :)
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Maybe it's just a matter of opinion and interpretation Paul, that an item needs to be cut to be called crystal, I don't know, but it's interesting to talk about.
A little while ago I was watching some videos about glass blowing on youtube (btw, I can really recommend it, it's amazing to see artists at work and there's so much to see!) and I came across some videos of Daum, VSL etc, and they were blowing these clear freeform pieces from the 60/70's, I'm sure you've seen them before, and they were still talking about crystal because of the composition and 'recipe', if I can call it like that.
Re the acid, VSL indeed used acid for it's cameo and acid cut items, but cut crystal, cut to clear or not, was always produced traditionally before.
I can't say how long they've been using this new method now, as everything was kept quiet for so long. From what I understand, is that blanks are now produced in eastern Europe and shipped to Belgium. At VSL just one oven is in working order, so productivity on the spot is quite low.
I don't know if anybody of the general public would notice the difference in techniques though, and I'm not saying that because 'I think i'm so clever and I know it all' ... over here VSL still has that image of being one of the best, like they were a 100 years ago, they're still considered as a jewel in the crown of Belgium's cultural heritage and there's still this national pride. Its market, especially for older pieces, is stronger than ever before.
There's still this respect from the general public for owning a piece of VSL, as, like in the old days, it still says something about your status and prosperity. Funny actually, now I think about it, that has never changed. I wonder if they'll be able to rely on that in the future, as they're opening a shop in Dubai ... why in Dubai ??? I don't know, as it's mainly a pass-through city IMO, the city has reached it's financial limits for building developments and holidaymakers are not coming back with a piece of VSL as a souvenir.
But personally, I wouldn't pay the prices for the pieces that I've seen in the showroom, a couple of weeks ago.
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there's nothing quite like the appeal of 1930s VSL multi-coloured cut glass - it's fairly obvious why people buy the stuff and that's probably why they're opening a shop in Dubai. ;) This Belgian factory has had everything going for it............ the deco style - the multi coloured layers, perfection in cutting............... can't imagine it not being popular.
British Georgian/Regency (1800 - 1830) cut glass was possibly second to none for skill of cutting and quality of glass - and following on from that, Stourbridge cameo work was a tour de force, but the trend for the U.K. doesn't seem to have followed on into the C20 with the same nouveau as you lot.
Might you have a piece of VSL you'd like to share with us Anne - it's quite possible many people on the GMB will not have seen the quality coloured cut glass of which you speak - attached is picture of cut table bowl from c. 1800 - 1830, probably British - but am sure most people would take the VSL over the clear bowl any day.
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Yes I do Paul, i don't know why, but I'm going more and more for older and traditional pieces, even just in clear crystal ;D.
I guess we all go through periods in which you prefer one thing to the other and your taste changes.
The oval bowl I now absolutely love, it's catalogued for 1908 nr 126. If I'd seen it a few years ago, I wouldn't have given it any attention... funny that. It's 33 cm long.
The red c-t-c and acid cut vase is by Léon Ledru, 25,5 cm in height and dated 1905-1908. This design is also to be found with 24 ct gold, but often mistaken with the 60/70's re-edition called 'Danse de Flore'.
The blue vase is catalogued for 1936 and designed by Joseph Simon, who followed up as head of creations after Ledru. He was, and still is, considered as far more innovative and ahead of it's time than Ledru was, and his pieces are really heavy! This one's 31 cm.
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And if you like the 30ies Paul, this bowl 'Duplex' was done for the World Exhibition of 1930 in Liege, over here in Belgium and a stone's throw away from VSL.
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thanks sounds a bit inadequate Anne ...... may I come and be your official glass cleaner - I'll work for free... ;D
yes, I'm a big fan of the deco style - I think it's erotic, tends to be understated, and has an almost indefinable something that appeals to the art lover - perhaps it's the almost perfect aesthetics of design.
very much appreciate your taking the time to post these - they are indeed great pieces of glass - thanks.