Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: dirk. on May 26, 2016, 09:23:53 PM
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Hi,
found a pair of these today and wondered if anyone might be able to name a maker. The foot says
Art Nouveau earliest, but I think they might as well be a few decades younger. In general they have
a bit of a Theresienthal style, but I´ve not been able to find them on Stephan´s site...
Ideas anyone?
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Are they hock glasses, what size are they?.
Very nice, lovely quality.
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Forgot.... I think hock glasses. They are 20.3cm / 8 inch tall. :)
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Very posh ones :)
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sorry, can't help Dirk with attribution Dirk, but that flared stem together with the cutting/engraving might suggest these were intended for decorative use rather than something you actually used for drinking - I would agree these have a similarity to hock glasses.
cutting on the bowl could be one of many factories, VSL for example, but it's the flared stem that is unlike hock glasses made for use.
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I'm afraid I'm of no use but I just wanted to complement you on the pictures and presentation. It's always nice to see an item well presented.
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Rheinische Glashutten? That merese is perfectly formed and very similar to the one on my set (different) and the shape bowl is very similar to mine and the stem shape reminded me of Behrens who did a similar stem I thought for them?
and if you use
Koln Ehrenfeld glas as a search it might throw up a catalogue or museum catalogue for them.
m
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this one (different shape but similar cutting on the bowl though not the same)was sold as c.1920 - so perhaps that might be the era for yours, although I think it is possible it might be earlier?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Roemer-Uberfang-rubinrot-Rheinische-Glashuetten-AG-Koeln-Ehrenfeld-ca-1920-min-b-/401064052937?nma=true&si=NZ7aZdJvwq2aJpGkMoixAuyy33s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Dirk - quite justifiably you have been complemented on your superb photographic efforts - would you care to share your secrets with us ;) - do you use a light tent for example, or perhaps some other method to diffuse the light. :)
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this design is dated 1890.
I think yours is a variation on this.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/10-Adolf-Roemer-Weinroemer-Rheinische-Glashuetten-A-G-Koeln-Ehrenfeld-um-1890-/121678655146?nma=true&si=NZ7aZdJvwq2aJpGkMoixAuyy33s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
That is the one shown second from right on the catalogue page here
There is another cut (?) one shown far right on the catalogue page.
I think it's possible yours is a variation on that shape. But I can't find any later catalogues or pattern books.
http://www.bv-4.de/index.html?/historie_industrie_glas.html
m
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Thanks everyone for your information, opinion and last, but not least compliments - really appreciated.
As for the photographs I could make a short explanation in another forum of this board if you like.
Personally I think the Ehrenfeld hint looks most promising for now. I´m sure the shape based on a
traditional rummer shape would be german, austrian or bohemian rather than french or belgian, but I´m
always open to be corrected. Especially the trumpet-shaped stem seems to point towards that direction
IMO.
Datewise the slim and elegant dimensions of the stem are Art nouveau or later I think. As I said before I
can´t exclude a revival style. Hence I was suggesting Theresienthal, because they produced in older styles
over a long period.
However - if old indeed... Personally I find the one in the last link from flying free very close - but the one
on the very right even more than the other one, because the dimensions of the stem are so very close.
I´ll try to find more online.
Many thanks!
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there is also Josephinenhütte to consider (and possibly others maybe Lobmeyr, Meyr's Neffe, Moser? but couldn't find anything so far on those) - I'm just going by my gut instinct (which is often found to be wrong :) )
however, both Josephinenhutte and Theresienthal just don't seem to have the similarities that Rheinische Glashutten does for some reason.
Here are a few to compare:
http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2012-3w-buse-theresienthal-heckert.pdf
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this is described as possibly Oskar Rauter glass for Rheinische Glashutten c.1890
http://samling.nasjonalmuseet.no/no/object/OK-04010
there are similarities in the merese and knop
and if you enlarge the picture on this pokal again the same
http://samling.nasjonalmuseet.no/no/object/OK-04013
I don't know if that is a feature on other similar glass from other makers but I've not come across it on my searches.
m
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Many thanks once more - really appreciated! I´ve got a vague feeling I may have seen facet-cut
knobs on stemware elsewhere, but I´m really not sure...
Theresienthal seems to have hot-shaped forms on their stems rather than cuts.
Hard to tell if we´ll ever find a maker.... mmm...
You never know - sometimes it takes years. :)
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I think I've seen a faceted knop
on a Baccarat piece (or might have been St Louis very recently)edit: it was definitely Saint-Louis,I've just found it again.
But nothing like your glasses in shape.
All things considered, the bowl shape, the stem shape, the merese and knop to me all point to Rheinische Glashutten.
But I'm often wrong ;D ;D
They are lovely though. Are you using them? I use mine only at Christmas. Had to sell another set to pay for one more to match my five to a set of six (fortunately managed to find a match from Germany) and they are just too expensive to use more than once a year. But the wine tastes good from them :)
m
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also see
Theresiethal (scroll down to third set of photos down)
http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/jugendstiltrad.html
'Römer aus dem Umkreis der Form 1153 mit unbekanntem Dekor und facettiertem Nodus, farblich und formal ansonsten identisch mit dem gezeigten Römer 1153 '
It has a faceted knop.
Then there are others on that page also.
However, being stubborn, I still think I'd be looking to match it with RG for some reason.
and Peter Behrens for Rheinische Glashütten AG Köln-Ehrenfeld
http://www.kunsthandel-czambor.de/Angebot/Glas/Jugendstil/Weinglas-Entwurf-Peter-Behrens-Rheinische-Glash%C3%BCtten-AG-Jugendstil-1905-oder-fr%C3%BCher/06518/
m
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You´re far more often spot on than wrong! :-*
I only bought the glasses 2 weeks ago and I´m still undecided whether to use them or not.
Probably I should wait until I´ve got an ID. If I found out after smashing one, that it was a
Peter Behrens (although the cut on the vessel says no IMO) design, I´d feel devastated. ;D
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It's very difficult to tell as I only have two thirds of the picture but in the Harrach book on the right hand facing inside front cover, up at the top row second from right, there is a goblet with some similarities.
It only has the top merese and then the cut knop underneath it, it does not have the second merese that 'joins' the knop to the trumpet stem. The trumpet stem is cut in a similar fashion to yours and it has the band around the bottom of the foot but not the notch cutting on the foot. It is not a cut bowl.
However,it is similar enough to be be a possible. It is no 2145/3 as far as I can tell (very difficult to read pattern number).
You might wish to send your photographs to Harrach along with that pattern number and book page reference and see if they can help perhaps?
m
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Very interesting - again! Many thanks once more. I´ll try to contact them next week.
By any chance - and risking to stretch your kindness to the boundaries, could you send me a quick shot
from the book to give me an idea, please?
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I have sent them :)
m
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Just a little update - unfortunately no reply from Harrachov.
Meanwhile I saw the attached glass in a shop in Salzburg. The seller had no idea about the maker either, but
at least we now know there are also related glasses in a cased version.
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did you buy it? :)
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Tourist area prices combined with a stubborn seller. It may have been nice for comparison, but given the facts
I decided a good picture would do. ;)
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aah that's a shame, but lovely photo :)
Different stem but the same glass and cut.
That's a pity you haven't heard from Harrach :-\
although I still think it's talking RG Koln Ehrenfeld to me, I've not been able to match anything similar on the cut.
It's weird how references of some of the makers have just disappeared off the face of the earth, from certain eras (thinking about Stevens and Williams here as well) - no catalogues etc, very odd.
m