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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: brucebanner on June 05, 2016, 10:57:23 AM

Title: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: brucebanner on June 05, 2016, 10:57:23 AM
I think this is an ice bucket and the lozenge i think reads 9th March 1875. Seago, Johnson & Co Birmingham

Nicely decorated with a silver plate handle. On the inside there is a lip and a plated lid with drain holes.

5 1/2 inches in height, 5 inches in diameter across the rim.

I can not see it listed on here or on the net.

Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 05, 2016, 11:10:37 AM
Nice, in view of the fish perhaps for caviar (in a smaller container inside)
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on June 05, 2016, 11:53:29 AM
very interesting.....   in view of Christine's comments I wondered if the fish was supposed to be a sturgeon, but don't think so.    Apparently you can have sturgeon in your garden pond  -  caviar on tap so to speak.

Will see if I have the National Archives original drawing - will post if I have.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on June 05, 2016, 01:34:10 PM
there seems to be some discrepancy regarding surface decoration of the lower part of the pail - no idea why - and as you'd expect the original drawing omits the metalwork - might be of interest to know the details of the stamping assuming something other than EPNS.

Wonder if the hare is of some significance - part of a coat of arms perhaps?          Weren't the Victorians big on sardines?

The engraving is good quality.                        Might this now be moved to British.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: brucebanner on June 05, 2016, 05:04:21 PM
Great to see the extra info, no marks on the plating though.
Is there anything known on the maker ?.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: agincourt17 on June 05, 2016, 09:36:13 PM
Thank you, Chris, for showing the ice pail, and Paul for the design representations from TNA.

I know of no other image(s) of RD 289281.

From:  http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/mans-s.htm

Quote
Seago, Johnson & Co
Birmingham (1870s)
Thomas Seago, Benjamin John Johnson, glass cutters and engravers. First at 49 Friston Street, later at 23 George Street Parade. Registered 6 designs in1874 and 1875, with a further 4 designs as Seago & Co in 1876 and 1877
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on June 06, 2016, 02:14:03 PM
Fred's note detailing other Registrations from Seago, taken from the Great Glass site, has gone - presumably for obvious reasons.

Having looked through Jenny Thompson, I can see 5 designs only from 1874/75, not the 6 as mentioned on Great Glass  -  someone tell me please if I've missed one.............    I can see:-

Rd.  280660            -  23.02.1874  -  ink well
       288498/9/500  -  16.01.1875  -  butter/marmalade/marmalade
       289821            -  09.03.1875  -  the ice pail we've already discussed
       297633            -  09.01.1876  -  presently no idea what this refers to
       303996            -  02.10.1876  -  butter dish
       309484/85       -  18.04.1877  -  again, presently no idea about these two.

the above descriptions are taken directly from the original factory drawings, of which I can see nine in total for the period 1874 to 1877.


   
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Anne on June 06, 2016, 11:11:46 PM
Paul, I agree with you, I can only find 5 designs from 1874/5 too in Thompson.  Plus the 4 from 1876/7.  None of the Seago designs are included in the RD No. listings on the Great Glass website.

These are the other three design descriptions: [source National Archives Discovery catalogue]

Design number: 297633.
Name: Seago & Co.
Address: 23 George Street Parade Birmingham.
Description: Bottle for Liquer Cruet & other Frames.
Date:   1876 Jan 14

Design number: 309484.
Name: Seago & Co.
Address: 23 George Street Birmingham.
Description: Glass Ice Bowl.
Date:   1877 Apr 18

Design number: 309485.
Name: Seago & Co.
Address: 23 George Street Birmingham.
Description: Glass Ice Bowl.
Date:   1877 Apr 18

The catalogue gives a total of 18 results (2 per RD no.) so 9 designs for Seago. I think that the stated 6 for 1874/5 on the Great Glass site is an error, it should have said 5. 







Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on June 07, 2016, 07:50:03 AM
thanks Anne - good to have confirmation.                    Back when I was taking masses of pix at TNA, I tried to make some sort of personal judgment as to whether an item was of sufficient interest to warrant photographing - some items, glass chimneys for example I considered were probably not.          Unfortunately, looks as though my pruning was at times a bit too severe -  will try to get the three for which you've now added data, when I next visit.                     
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: brucebanner on January 18, 2017, 09:30:22 PM
Here is the marmalade in Paul's list.

Cut not pressed.


4 1/4 inches in height without the lid.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: brucebanner on January 18, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
Well one of them.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on January 18, 2017, 09:58:24 PM
that's a great piece of glass  -  particularly like the machine acid etching  -  almost makes you want to have the lid re-silvered :)

Fred .........  in my reply No. 6, are you still waiting for me to get the Kew Pix  -  can't remember now whether I did anything about them or not :-\
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: agincourt17 on January 19, 2017, 11:25:56 AM
Thank you for showing this 'marmalade', Chris. I will add the pictures to the GMB RD database as being from the RD bundle  "288498/9/500  -  16.01.1875  -  butter/marmalade/marmalade" and tweak the entries accordingly if more info. come to light.

Paul - the only Seago pictures I have are for the ice pail RD 289821 of 9 March 1875 (which are on the GMB RD database) , and would love to see any other Seago RD pics in due course.

Fred.
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: Paul S. on January 19, 2017, 10:56:40 PM
this cut and etched marmalade is Reg. 288500, and differs from the other marmalade No. 288499 in body shape and pattern of cutting and etching - and these differences are substantial enough to avoid any confusion.
Both designs show vertical cutting around the base plus mechanical etching in the upper half of the body........   oddly enough - as you'll see in due course - the original factory drawings, for both, show a hooped handle, and not a central finial on the EPNS lid as appears in the photo from Chris.       
I have Kew pix for all three of these Seago, Johnson Registrations - 288498/99/500 from 16.01.1875  -  the butter and two marmalades, but need to re-photograph both marmalades for better close up size, so will show 288498 only for now.

Of the other five Registrations mentioned in my earlier post No. 6  ................... 

280660 is an ink well as stated, and will be included in the 'Ink Wells' thread in the coming days.

297633 is a design for a cruet of some description, and I also need to visit Kew for this item.

303996 is a butter, and I've included this one here too.

309484/85 are another two I need from Kew, so will be a few days yet before I can post.

Just as a suggestion, might it be of any benefit to include this Registrants name in the subject heading ??  -  might not make any difference of course...............   it does get confusing with some of these pressed glass threads when they become heavily visited and acquire a lot more information, and pictures etc., than just the Registration No. they started out with. :)
Title: Re: Ice bucket for show RD 289821
Post by: agincourt17 on January 20, 2017, 09:53:54 AM
Thank you, Paul, for posting the design representations for the Seago, Johnson & Co. RDs 288498 and 303996.

I will add them to the GMB RD database this morning.

Fred.