Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: agincourt17 on July 13, 2016, 10:32:08 AM
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I wasn’t quite sure whether to post this topic under ‘Paperweights’, British & Irish Glass’, or just ‘Glass’, so I will leave to the moderators to decide its ultimate destination.
A clear glass paperweight in the form of a circular column, with a circular boss or foot at the base, and the shaft of the column cut across at an angle. The bottom of the shaft is embossed ‘Rd. No. 160988 ST. PANCRAS IRON WORKS LONDON’. It stands 10.25cm tall and weighs almost 1kg.
(Permission to re-use these images on the GMB granted by Mick Davey).
I can’t find Rd. No. 160988 (which should have been registered in November 1890) in any of the ‘normal’ reference lists for glass design registrations, so any information regarding the registration details will be gratefully received.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/St._Pancras_Ironwork_Co
reveals that [in 1868] St. Pancras Ironwork Co. (sic.) were engineers, ironfounders and smiths of Old St. Pancras Road, opposite Old St. Pancras Church, London N.W. and York Road, Kings Cross, London N. I think it was unlikely, therefore, that the paperweight was actually manufactured by the St. Pancras Iron Works. Perhaps it was an advertising piece given away to customers (or even potential customers attending the many industrial exhibitions where the company was showcasing their wares).
Fred.
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Just to fill in some of the gaps about the St. Pancras Iron Works :
The company was absolutely pivotal to industrial and metallurgical history nationally and worldwide because it was founded by Henry Bessemer (1813-1898) who moved into what was then ‘Baxter House’, St. Pancras, before 23 September 1841 and established the St Pancras Ironworks behind the house. It was here that he developed his "Bessemer Process" for the manufacture of steel. When his process was not taken up by other producers he erected a steelworks in Sheffield which provided quality steel at £20 per ton cheaper than the competitors. This prompted his competitors to licence his process, making Bessemer a millionaire. Bessemer was a prolific inventor and held at least 129 patents, spanning from 1838 to 1883. These included military ordnance, movable dies for embossed postage stamps, a screw extruder to extract sugar from sugar cane, and others in the fields of iron, steel and glass. These are described in some detail in his autobiography.
The original St Pancras Ironworks site was cleared about 1870 to make way for the Midland Railway coal drops. By 1876, their address is given as St. Pancras Road, London N.W. By 1907, a Motor Show Exhibition description of their Steam Wagon gives the address of manufacture as 171 St. Pancras Road.
The St Pancras Ironworks Co. manufactured a huge variety of utilitarian iron pieces, including manhole covers, gutters; stair treads, and pavement lights and there are some photos of their handiwork at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyg1955/3887926365
and
https://morningmistermagpie.com/2015/02/23/st-pancras-ironworks/
Pavement Lights were set into pavements, and they had iron frames into which were set blocks or prisms of glass to let light into cellars, vaults, and basements below. Prisms were used instead of flat glass to disperse the light, diffusing it over a large area; plain flat glass would simply form a bright spot on the floor below, not providing much useful general lighting.
They also manufactured skylights, hot houses, verandahs, and conservatories, all of which were ultimately glazed, so presumably the company had connections with glass manufacturers, as well as Bessemer himself being well versed in the technicalities of glass manufacture.
Fred.
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I've already mentioned to Fred that this one is giving me some problems - I've researched the No. at Kew, but it appears not to be as straightforward as most Registrations, so.......... am presently in discussions with The National Archives and hope to have the answer in part or full within next day or two. :)
In the meantime, I think congratulations to Fred are in order for his work in unearthing much detailed history of this company which makes his posts so much more interesting than many others.
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Thanks for the information Fred. That's a weird shape - is it definitely a paperweight? might it have been made to fit into something? not sure what but looks difficult to pick up and move so not the best shape for a weight. Does it magnify?
m
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As for where this belongs in the Board, I think we should wait for some Rd Design details, if they are available.
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m, I just assumed it was a paperweight because it is certainly 'weighty' couldn't think of what else it might be.
I'm not the owner - I just have permission to re-use the photos - so I've no idea if it magnifies or not.
Fred.
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It's a model pavement light surely and thus a paperweight.
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You may well have the answer, Christine, except that I now think that this hefty glass item is an actual glass prism for fitting into an iron frame of the pavement light rather than any kind of model.
At
http://glassian.org/Prism/Vault/index.html
there is a web page on the subject of ‘Vault Lights / Pavement Lights / Sidewalk Prisms’ illustrated with a block of 6 pictures in 3 rows of 2.
The left-hand picture of the top row shows 2 of the glass prisms with the legend
“Usually seen in this orientation (when out of context on someone's sales table as a whatsit), but this is upside-down. The prism hangs below, and the flat part is on top, forming the surface to be trodden upon.”
The right-hand picture of the second row has the legend
“A prism shape is better than just plain flat glass since the prism will disperse some of the light sideways, diffusing and spreading the light over a larger area, and hopefully providing enough natural light to render an underground space usable.”
The diagram of the glass prism bears a gratifying resemblance the RD 160988 ‘paperweight [or ‘whatsit’ as the previous legend would have it] – see the photo below of the piece ‘turned upside down’
The right -hand picture of the bottom row has the legend
“In the U.K. "pavement lights" were originally set in iron frames, often marked with the name of the foundry (rather than the glassmaker). Later replacements (still being made today) are set in concrete and steel in the U.S. style.”
This shows a rectangular glass prism in situ within the gridded iron frame, but if the frame had circular (rather than rectangular) apertures for the prism, then RD 160988 would be a perfect candidate for the glass prism to fit it. This would also explain the need for the prism to be so thick and substantial to allow the flat part (now on top) to withstand the footfall (hobnail boots and all).
Fred.
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By Jove we've cracked it. I think I may well have seen circular ones
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I had no idea when I suggested it, but it just looked like it was supposed to fit into something.
Great sleuthing :) and fantastic to have found out what it really is.
m
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Thank you, m - you were certainly on the right track.
What threw me, I think, was the orientation of the lettering around the shaft just above the flat base (that turns out to be the top when in use). I suppose they were more conveniently stored with the flat bit down and the prismatic bit up, which was when the lettering would be seen. Once they were installed in a frame the lettering would be hidden anyway.
Fred.
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sorry, still waiting for a reply from my contact at Kew - I've been absent all today, but glad to see you've all been busy and appear to have succeeded in finding out its use. :)
P.S. meant to say ......... Fred has a real cracker for us next week - involves an old post from a lady who no longer contributes to the Board - but the story is quite an adventure, and know you'll all find it of interest. sssssshhh - think I can hear Fred busily typing his notes as we speak ;) ;D
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have now spoken again to TNA people at Kew, and having looked at the details I've supplied, they regret unable to help with any further information to resolve this Registration. Very unusual for them to admit defeat, but it seems that the meaning of the pencilled entry, where normally an image of the design would be, is lost in the mists of time and they advise now not possible to discover what happened.
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Thank you again, Paul, for all your efforts.
When you look at the shear size of the design registration archive, it's no small wonder that there are occasional glitches in the system.
Fred.
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I've dropped Ian Macky (glassian.org) a note to alert him about this topic, so hopefully he will pop by. :)
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It is indeed a pavement light; I recently acquired that exact article from UK eBay; those are the eBay auction pics which started off the thread. Attached is my quick pic of it next to a Brown Bros paperweight.
I have ordered the design information from the National Archives, and the digital download should be available shortly. I will share the results when I get it. The note from NA regarding my order did say "Patent registration, no design included" which didn't sound very promising.
--ian
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Hello Ian - judging by my own recent lack of success at Kew with the Representation Book (BT 50/147) - the Register is BT 51/62 - plus my conversations with Julie Halls who is the expert on C19 Board of Trade Registrations - I'm of the opinion that like myself, you will draw a blank in acquiring any more information on Registration 160988.
Kew's comments "no design included" is correct in that any image and or other comments of use, of this design, that were in BT 50/147 originally, have been removed at some time in the (distant) past.
Regret I'm unsure as to the exact meaning of the expression 'Patent Registration' ........ I admit to losing the thread of this one a little, and had believed we were speaking of a Registration only, rather than a Patent. Of course if it were the latter then maybe further information might be found somewhere, but believe we've probably discovered about as much information as we're likely to find............ and so it's not a p/w ;) ;)
There is a service offered here on the Board, regarding those Registrations of interest and where National Archive images and information would help to expand our knowledge. I know that Kew professional researchers do charge for providing data, although perhaps on occasions they do so for free - really not sure - no doubt you will discover very soon. ;) In future if there is a particular Rd. for which images and details are of benefit you can of course post here, and who knows we might be able to help. ;D
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Got my scan from the NA. Yes, it is 51/62. Nothing much of interest on the registration page, oh well. --ian
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I agree it's a disappointment when research hits a dead end. I photographed that Register entry, plus the Representations page, and was sitting here wondering why I hadn't posted them on this thread. Could be losing my marbles, but have a feeling that I sent copies to Fred directly - un-watermarked - at least I'm sure I sent them to someone :-\
There remains the mystery as to what the other Registration - No. 160987 - referred to ........ you can see from the page you've posted that it was originally for the two numbers.
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You didn't send any photos relating to RD 160988 to me, Paul.
Fred.
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uhmmmm - I remember sending you a variety of pix that related to Registrations that we had discussed off-Board - un-watermarked. Believe you then posted these topics on the Board to which I then added the same pix, but with the watermarking.
My filing system is non-existent, so can't now check back to see exactly what I did send - it doesn't really matter now since Ian has posted the Register entry, but I might add the 'mystery' Representations page which is minus the original drawing etc. I think the cracks are beginning to show. ;)
All got a bit confused now but no matter, we know the purpose of the item and our research is at an end anyway.
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There remains the mystery as to what the other Registration - No. 160987 - referred to ........ you can see from the page you've posted that it was originally for the two numbers.
Presumably the same sort of thing, but different. There were ever so many variations on the theme. Perhaps someday one will turn up, and if I get my sweaty paws on it, you shall hear the details. I'm not holding my breath, though: this is the first St Pancras pavement light I've ever seen for sale, and I've been looking for years.
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My profound apologies, Paul.
You did indeed email me the un-watermarked pics of the register entry on 8th July but I had mis-filed the email so that it didn't show up when I searched for it later. You didn't send the pic of the representations page, however. because Unfortunately, the Representations Book is without any image, and instead a blue pencilled note has been inserted..... which reads "Rd. 160988 Taken out - see Corr. 641/2195".
Fred.
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thanks Fred - obviously I'm not losing too many marbles then ;D - but enough to have made a big mistake of deleting both pictures from my pc. :o
No matter - Ian has done the necessary as far as the Register goes, and you've now provided the wording from the Representations book, so nothing more we can do and am sure we've exhausted every avenue.
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"Rd. 160988 Taken out - see Corr. 641/2195"
What is "Corr. 641/2195"?
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We know what it means in the obvious sense, but not the whys and wherefores .......
According to Julie Halls at TNA, she believes that it refers to some very old 'Correspondence', and that the '641/2195' was the Board of Trade reference for that correspondence - which if we could see it, would explain all. What it meant and whether this correspondence still exists seems apparently to be unknown and unlikely.
Although I've accidentally deleted my picture of the Representations page for 160988, I have photographed other virtually identical pages where the original drawing or photo is no longer present, and a similar 'Corr.' written note is all that remains ................ see the attached pix.
However, in these other examples you'll see there is a rubber stamp comment which says 'Cert. not Issued'. etc.
........ so does that explain the absence of our missing picture/drawing for 160988 - i.e. it was an unsuccessful Registration, and as such the factory image was removed from the Representations page. I know nothing about pavement lights or their invention etc., so can't comment as to the possibility that there may have been some problems with validity of such a Registration.
Unfortunately, I now can't remember if the page for Rd. 160988 also said 'Cert. not Issued'. :( I might look again some day.
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Wee snippet here about the St Pancras Iron Works, which has a mention of "Scott's Patent Glass Walls and Economical Greenhouses" - don't know if there's a connection?
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/St._Pancras_Ironwork_Co (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/St._Pancras_Ironwork_Co)
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Wee snippet here about the St Pancras Iron Works, which has a mention of "Scott's Patent Glass Walls and Economical Greenhouses" - don't know if there's a connection?
Aha, thank you for that, glass walls are one of my things... and they are related to pavement lights since both are articles for daylighting. Will be looking into this Scott fellow.
Hmm, 1868 Laxton's; my earliest is 1878... I've been looking for earlier ones, but had not thought to go before 1871, which is when Hayward introduced their semi-prism pavement light... guess this changes my mind.
...time passes...
The Catalogue of the Library of the Patent Office for 1881 says:
SCOTT (J. R.), of the St. Pancras Iron Works Company. Wall Fruit, and how to grow it by an improved system of Glass Walls. London, 1866? 12mo. (13735)
Perhaps he was the St Pancras design man; if so, he may have been involved in the pavement light designs too...
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The Gardeners Chronicle & New Horticulturist, Volume 25 (1865) has a cut of Scott's system. Looks to be a modular sheet-glass based system, lightweight and portable, not a permanent glass brick or block structure. Not my thing after all, oh well...