Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: SophieB on August 03, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
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Hi all,
I thought I should mention here the four Paul Ysart fakes that are coming up for auction at Lyon & Turnbull in lots 80 and 81 in the auction of 17 August (see page 3 of the auction catalogue below):
http://auctions.lyonandturnbull.com/auction-catalog/473
I would not want anyone on this board to be caught out. I have also informed the auction house of this.
SophieB
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Well done. I have also informed them of the problems...no change on the listing so far...
Alan
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Good news. Lyon & Turnbull has withdrawn the two lots of Paul Ysart fake paperweights.
SophieB
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Why so much trouble about Paul Ysart fakes???
In my opinion: the fakes are more less then Paul has made original Ysart paperweights (15000 ??).
Perhaps the seldom fakes are more worth then pauls weights???
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The problem is not about the "worth" or value.
It is about people buying items that are incorrectly described by sellers / auction houses.
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I disagree!
In a capitalism world is everything a question of value and worth!!!
You ca find incorrectly descriptions by the wellknown and very best auctionhouses.
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But would you want to buy something from an auction only to get it home and find out that it was a fake that you'd paid a lot of money for and that the auction house had got it wrong?
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In my opinion is that not the right question!
Generally I will agree with you, but in cases, when very good fakes are more rare then the originals, we have an other situation, because we have a very seldom reference item !!!!
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I understand that the fakes are rare, some even very valuable, and make for an interesting collection. I see no issue in selling the fake. The problem is in selling the fake as the original. If it is a fake and you have knowledge that it is a fake it must be sold as such.
Eric
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Hi all,
I alerted the auction house to the fact that all four of their advertised PY paperweights were fakes because the description was inaccurate and may have deceived bidders/buyers. I have no issue with these weights being sold as PY fakes.
With regard to the question of numbers, I think we need to refine our analysis here: yes, it is pretty clear that Paul Ysart in a career that lasted over 50 years produced overall many more paperweights than the various fakers of PY weights. However, if we look more closely as to the type of paperweights that were faked, I am not sure that the situation is that clear-cut. First, the great majority of genuine PY’s weights that come on the market are (unsigned) millefiori (and mostly from the pre and post-war Moncrieff period). These more common weights are not those that were commonly faked. Among the fakes, one finds (not surprisingly) copies of the less common and even rare production of Paul Ysart: for example, less common PY weights are those with a butterfly or (even less common) a dragonfly and the rare weights are those with three insects, butterfly over a flower etc. If we look at the fakes produced then I am less sure that the number/rarity argument is fully convincing: for instance, I have seen many more fake PY dragonflies offered for sale in my 10 years of collecting than genuine PY ones. Similarly, I have seen two fake butterfly over a flower weights but not one genuine PY of such design over the period and two PY fake three insects weights but only one genuine PY weight offered for sale over the same period. While there are likely to be more genuine PY single flower weights or genuine PY butterfly weights than faked ones, I do think that the numbers/rarity analysis needs to take account of the fact that fakers produced those items that were the most sought after by collectors – the rarer ones…
SophieB