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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: WhatHo! on August 11, 2016, 04:52:27 PM

Title: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 11, 2016, 04:52:27 PM
Hi Guys, are you aware of any white glass being used (as in white enamel), even in small quantities in Mdina Glass, pre 1977? Maybe for commissions?
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 11, 2016, 05:40:14 PM
I can't say about pre-'77. I'd say with certainty not pre-'75, when Said took over, but when did the splodgy things start being made? Was that '75 when the takeover first happened? or did it take longer for this stuff to start being made?
All I know about commissions were the Verdala bowls, for the Verdala hotel, and the chess set Said did.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Patrick on August 12, 2016, 01:31:22 PM
There might possibly be an answer here.........   

This blown fish frigger by Vicente Boffo has white frit in it along with many other interesting colours. Boffo might have had his own supply of frit but more likely used Mdina material.

Cheers,

Patrick.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 12, 2016, 01:52:26 PM
Your fish has somewhat "Tigery" colours. Do you know the date it was made?
I'm not sure that "frit" counts as being an actual enamel. 
I thought frit was just a lump of "something", ;D
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Patrick on August 13, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
I am not sure of when it was made........ currently it is the only known example.

I think broken up white enamel would create suitable frit.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 13, 2016, 05:21:38 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is Mdina so Boffo was there from 1970 til 1976-7 so this must give a rough date. I dont think it Whitefriars because it has silver choride in it. WF used SC in their studio range but that was not until late 1970s.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: glassobsessed on August 14, 2016, 12:14:28 PM
The brown spots remind me very much of some of Mdina's tortoiseshell. I don't know of any white used during Harris' time but never say never. As Boffo was producing his own work could he have been buying in his own materials? In that scenario he could have been using white while the works was not.

John
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 14, 2016, 01:07:29 PM
 ;)
Do you mean Tiger/Marble, rather than Tortoiseshell, John?
I thought the whitish bits with brown spots looks like the creamy background in Marble, so that would be a silver thing, not white enamel.

I have pretty much always thought that white did not appear until after Said took over, I've never found any evidence to the contrary, but... absense of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Obviously, I didn't know anything when I started, I can't remember when it was I realised that white did not appear until later, but it was fairly early in my learning curve.
I'd noticed there was splodgy stuff with white in that I didn't like, not anything like the stuff I did like. Then I found out that the splodgy stuff, with white in, didn't seem to appear until Said took over.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Patrick on August 14, 2016, 06:26:09 PM
As Boffo was producing his own work could he have been buying in his own materials? In that scenario he could have been using white while the works was not.

You could well be correct John ........ Here is another solid fish of the type that Boffo used to sell at the King's Tobacconist shop.  Not mine sadly but this certainly has white in it !
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 15, 2016, 10:52:18 AM
We still don't know the dates of these fish.
Boffo was at Mdina before and after Said took over in '75.

Is there any particular reason you're asking about '77 rather than '75 Wolfie?
And do you know when the splodgy stuff started being made?
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 15, 2016, 01:02:13 PM
We still don't know the dates of these fish.
Boffo was at Mdina before and after Said took over in '75.

Is there any particular reason you're asking about '77 rather than '75 Wolfie?


I do not think there will any way of dating individual fish to an exact year. All I know is that V.Boffo started Mdina after June in 1970 and he started at MDG either late 1976 or early 1977 (J. Said said that Boffo left in 1977) so these fish where made between that period. Jim Munnelly has also confirmed that he was making fish with Boffo in their lunch breaks to sell to local gift stores. Jim was there from Aug '71 to Aug '75 so they were certainly made within this period.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 15, 2016, 01:24:03 PM
So the fish, however lovely to see them again,  ;) are actually red herrings as far as your question is concerned.
(Sorry, I can never resist a really bad pun.)
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 15, 2016, 01:32:46 PM
I dont think so, I think it proves that somehow there was white glass at Mdina in the early '70s. I will have to ask Jim about this one :)
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 15, 2016, 02:19:35 PM
I need to know too.  ;D
I have always gone by a "rule of thumb" that white enamel did not appear at Mdina any time before '75.

I don't actually count the Boffo work they did for themselves as being true Mdina - these were a "Boffo alone" thing, a very much smaller and special opus, but not sold through the Mdina shop which is what clinches the not-really-Mdina thing for me.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 15, 2016, 09:45:31 PM
Im just putting a link for future reference, looks like the white enamel came from Whitefriars,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,63295.new.html#new
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Baked_Beans on August 17, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
Wolfie when you say silver chloride wasn't used at Whitefriars until the late 1970's in their studio range,  what about this ?..........

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51003.msg289169.html#msg289169

I thought this design was from 1969 just before V Boffo left WF's  ?
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Baked_Beans on August 17, 2016, 08:42:28 AM
Could all the colours within the fish be the same as those used in the 1969 studio range at Whitefriars ?

http://www.cambridgeglassfair.com/exhibitions/pastexhibitions/2015-02-PeterWheeler.htm


Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Patrick on August 17, 2016, 11:53:03 AM
Could all the colours within the fish be the same as those used in the 1969 studio range at Whitefriars ?

A very good observation Mike........

Boffo was certainly using silver chloride then in the 'Studio Range' ( see the attached image from his workbook.)

My fish has applied fins in high quality flint glass which means it could actually have been made at Whitefriars........
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: glassobsessed on August 17, 2016, 01:11:19 PM
There is a potential problem with the Boffos bringing materials from Whitefriars - the expansion coefficient would need to match the coefficient of the glass used at Mdina assuming of course they used the glass available at Mdina. Someone who actually works with glass would know more about this...

John
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: Patrick on August 17, 2016, 01:55:09 PM
The answer........

Yes it was available in 1974 ............. In the form of broken white bottles  :)

This information has been supplied on Facebook by Alfred Sammut who worked with Harris and left in 1974.

See the screen grab of my conversation below.
Title: Re: White in early Mdina
Post by: WhatHo! on August 18, 2016, 06:57:42 AM
I'm pretty sure that this is Mdina so Boffo was there from 1970 til 1976-7 so this must give a rough date. I dont think it Whitefriars because it has silver choride in it. WF used SC in their studio range but that was not until late 1970s.

Apart from the date please ignore everything in the previous comment :)