Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on September 13, 2016, 04:41:35 PM
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I don't think I'm going mad, but this is a genuine Festivo candlestick, isn't it?
It's exactly the same quality and finish as the dozens of other Festivo items I've ever stocked - hand-cast, slightly asymmetrical form, randomised texture, irregular 'join' between each knop, and signed 'T.S.' to the base exactly as it should be.
Except I sold it recently, and the buyer is claiming it's a copy because it has a bubble in the base, the texture is "not right" and the hole that the candle goes in is "too deep". I pointed out that these 'irregularities' were broad features of handmade glass - even of first quality Iittala goods - and that the texture matched every other piece I'd handled but I was told that I was being offensive, and that they were a Finnish glass expert of 40 years standing.
???
Are there exceptionally good fakes I don't know about? I really don't want to be selling them inadvertently.
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It looks pretty like both of mine, one of which which has the remnants of a label on, although they don't have any accidental air bubbles in them to help you, I'm afraid, Nic. The TS mark is the same.
Why would anybody fake these? They're common and not expensive.
However, if they claim to be such an expert, why are they not a member here, helping out?
What books have they written, or academic papers published?
And why on earth would an "expert of 40 years' experience in Finnish glass", be buying something as common as a couple of Festivo candlesticks?
The favourite trick of the bully is to accuse the victim of doing precisely what they are doing themselves.
I strongly suspect you have an offensive buyer, not offensive glass.
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Hullo Sue. Thanks for taking a look.
There are actual Festivo copies out there - the ones that I'm aware of - but they're very easy to spot, being very uniform and machine-made.
We've four larger signed Festivo candlesticks in stock, all from different sources, and three of them have a tiny bubble or two idling about somewhere within them. But, then, if they're apparently all fake, being much the same as the smaller one, that information isn't much use either.
::)
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Existential crisis over. Partially. Now they're no longer claimed to be copies - but "rejects".
AFAIK, with a lot of glass-works quality control tends to come before signing glass, and second quality tends not to be signed the same way as first quality, if at all...
That said, I'm not sure I've ever run into identifiable Iittala second quality items. Were they, indeed, signed and sold?
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There are actual Festivo copies out there - the ones that I'm aware of - but they're very easy to spot, being very uniform and machine-made.
I have several Festivo candlesticks (signed and with stickers) - and one of the copies (about 50p on the fleamarket - for comparison): as you write, much more uniform. Also the base finish is smooth (not sure if polished would be the right word), whilst with the signed ones there is some texture in the central area.
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As far as I know, the machine-made knock-offs are Japanese.
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Hello Pinkspoons
I'm so glad I've found your message!
I, too, have just sold a pair of Festivo candlesticks, am certain they are genuine. But Buyer claimed " one candle stick has very sharp parts inside where the candle goes the other candle stick is rough where the candle goes sadly these are seconds". I said I'd refund, just to keep the peace, and then resell to someone more sane.... Unfortunately she/he didn't wrap them well enough when they sent them back and one arrived with big chip off of bottom. Obviously I said I would refund for one, but not the other. Now things are getting a bit nasty, and they say they are "one of three Finnish experts who deal with Iittala and other items. both candlesticks are faulty and seconds ( imperfect), the also not genuine they are copies made in China. in simple plain selling they are both fake." So they have changed their story from seconds, to fake. They signed off with this
'Are you Iittala and Finnish expert? if so what part of Finland did you do your training? '
If there are any of the other two Finnish experts on here who could verify my candlesticks, I'd be most grateful LOL!
Also had the cheek to say that if they were Iittala they would not have been damaged in post, so it proves they are fake. I think any glass item will chip if it's not wrapped well enough and goes through the post!
I'm dying to know if your 'finnish expert' and mine are the same person!! If someone could take a look at my items, I'd be grateful to know if they thought they look genuine. Both are signed to bottom.
I am doing my best to neutral and only stating facts, but I'm in half a mind to refund everything just to get this annoyance out of my system, I swear I get palpitations every time I get a message from them and life is too short! Apparently we may end up in the County Court over this.... (this was also in last message to me).
Regards
Kate
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These all look good to me... all art glass has the potential for air bubbles, and as these are apparently made in wooden moulds that wear over time, there will be inevitable slight differences, depending on the age of the mould used.
The fakes are easy to spot.
Pinkspoons and kathykate, are you both certain that the returned items are the ones you originally posted? One scam that some bidders use is to buy an item say it is damaged and return one they already had that was damaged.
kathykate, you should really only refund one candlestick, if you sold on eBay, they stipulate clearly that returned items must be properly packaged for return posting.
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Thank you RosiePosie, it is good to get someone else's opinion. I've seen pictures of the fake Festivos and personally I think you can tell the difference a mile off! I have received the same ones back, so they are not trying to pull a fast one there, and I also found a shard of glass in the box so pretty sure it happened in transit. They had put the bubble wrap around the items but hadn't taped it on, so one had worked loose. If only they had arrived in one piece all would have been good, it would have been a straight refund! I think I will ride it out, but have read that most often than not Ebay decide in favour of the buyer.
I only decided to sell to make room for more bits and bobs! Should have just kept them...
Regards
Kate
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In the section 'Returning an Item', this is the instruction a buyer gets for returning an item:
5. Pack the item carefully. Include the packing slip, apply the postage label, and send the item back to the seller. You must return the item – in the same condition as you received it – within 14 calendar days of requesting the return. It's good practice to include tracking information (if available) when returning an item.
It is good that you are being factual and calm about this, but stick to your guns. If the bubblewrap wasn't secured, then they have not obeyed eBay instructions, and the shard in the packing confirms that.
I do hope you win your case, you really should only have to refund for one item.
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There is nothing wrong with any of these Festivo, the buyer is deluded.
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At the risk of coming over as unprofessional - the buyer was a bona fide nutter. Especially if buying Festivo candlesticks and sending them back is what they do for fun.
I was glad when it was all over, but the way the return was packed (precariously, in a plastic bag), it could very easily have dragged on... and on...
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Plus point is that eBay only made me refund for the good candlestick, I haven't had to refund for the broken one. :) The case has been closed. Buyer is NOT HAPPY at all and is making all sorts of defamatory claims, just plain nonsense really. Did a bit of digging on their feedback left for others, found the attached. This negative feedback was for a new Festivo, they claimed it arrived broken. I agree with Pinkspoons - that you have to be some kind of strange person to have a fixation with buying and returning Finnish candlesticks, and to get a kick out of doing that... I now have an image in my head of this person sitting hunched over their computer surrounded by hundreds of Festivos. :o
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Hundreds of Festivos... waiting to be sent back.
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I was going through some boxes of stuff I'd packed away about 10 years ago yesterday, and I discovered what I suspect to be fake Mesi highballs.
Fake some sort of Iittala anyway!
I've taken a pic of the highball next to what I think it a real Mesi shot glass. (Real Iittala even if not Mesi.).
The colour of the highball is completely wrong, it's green, compared to ice-clear; the rim is heat finished, but thick and lumpy compared to the real thing. The pattern is ultra simple, regular and repeated; the real thing is far more complex.
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The schnapps glass is 'Niva' - definitely one of the nicest Iittala drinkware series!
The taller glass is 'Alaska' by Durobor, I think.
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Thanks for the info. :)
There is really no comparison of the qualities. Iittala wins outright.
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Yes - I got caught by this same nutcase - first they were seconds, then they were fakes, then they were copies. Some expert!
Both were signed and both had the original labels.
Name begins and ends with an A.
Returned safely and refunded.
End of - thank goodness.
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I found a pair lurking at the back of a shelf. Initialled TS, remnants of labels.
Having read this thread, they went to Oxfam.