Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Scott13 on January 07, 2017, 02:11:45 PM
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Hi,
I thought of WF on the strength of its colour ( which looks like Sea Green to me ) and polished out pontil mark.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it in any of their online catalogues - so I'm at a bit of a loss.
It really is quite light and delicate - small but perfectly formed would be an apt description ::)
I've compared it with a Sowerby Venetian but this one is altogether lighter.
H- 4 cm ( 1.5 in)
W- 6 cm ( 2.5 in)
Weight- 80 gm
Any help really appreciated :)
Scott
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Stuart maybe ?
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Hi Keith,
I tried Stuart but with no success. Nice glass though.
Despite all my searching I keep coming back to WF - principally because of its perfectly polished pontil mark and its colour; which I'm convinced is Sea Green.
I can make a comparison with my recently acquired WF wave ribbed vase ,which is in SG ( my last post ) - their colours do look similar.
This comeing from someone who isn't good with colours ;D
Perhaps it's a one off :o
Thanks
Scott
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I'd agree with Keith that this one does have a Stuarty sort of look ... see the attached. My general thoughts are that this little bowl could be from a number of makers - frilly rims plus some optic moulding like this have been quite common at times, and as a rather uneducated thought I'd be inclined to think that if it can't be found in the on-line W/Fs catalogues then good chance it wasn't theirs.
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Hi Paul,
Of course one could argue that its colour ( Sea Green ) provides it with an identity............ ;)
Unless of course there were other glassmakers at the time using exactly the same colour; and this is something we'll probably never know :)
Scott
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Hello,
Powell, Richardson, Webb and Stuart (and possibly Walsh Walsh and Webb Corbett) all used versions of dark green. This small bowl/vase is not Sea Green, but rather a dark green. Compare known Sea-Green by Whitefriars/Powell with this and you instantly see the difference.
I believe you will find a similar, wrythen, example by Thomas Webb within an article written by Lesley Jackson in the Glass Association Journal No5, 1997, where she uses a copy of an advert from The Pottery Gazette as an illustration.
Cheers, Nigel
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It does kind of have the look of this Webb's Iris in terms of shape doesn't it?
That is also quite fine in terms of heft.
http://www.decorative-antiques.co.uk/displayImage.asp?GID=15816&key=Webb%27s%20IRIS%20Glass%20Vase
Nigel, did Stevens and Williams use a dark green with a greyish hue?
m
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Hi Michelle,
Yes, I guess you could say a grey tint to the green in 1930's S&W green.
Cheers, Nigel
PS. Good photo link for the shape ;) :)
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Hi Nigel,
I've attached pics of my posy vase next to my 25.5 cm Whitefriars 'Wave Ribbed' vase - which incidentally has had its identity confirmed ( my previous post).
Always open minded.
Thanks for the info you provided :)
Scott
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Hi, three more pics as we've got some daylight now :)
Scott
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Hi Scott,
which incidentally has had its identity confirmed ( my previous post).
I'm sorry, but I must be missing something, as I didn't see that as conclusive. So, who are you saying made this little piece please?
Thanks, Nigel
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always dangerous to presume to understand someone else's thoughts, but...................
I think what Scott is saying Nigel is that.......... the colour of this wavy rimmed miniature vase appears to be the same as the colour of his W/Fs Wave Ribbed Vase - which has already been confirmed as W/Fs in another recent thread ......... therefore by deduction this miniature might have been assumed to be W/Fs also - based on the colour alone.
Bit like saying all Sparrows are birds - all sparrows have wings, therefore all birds with wings are sparrows.
As has been suggested, however, there have been houses - some of which you've named - who used a similar colour and probably similar frilly rims. Sometimes there's just too much of wanting something to be what you might wish, rather than concentrating on the facts alone.
Of course, I could be wrong with my interpretation. ;)
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Thank you Paul. Might you know where the other thread is by any chance?
I like your analogy about the sparrows - very apt :)
Cheers, Nigel
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http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,64121.0.html
yes, syllogisms can be fun. :)
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Oh, I see. It's all to do with colour.
A dangerous assumption - one characteristic in common making those items by the same maker! No where near enough information creating a link between the two IMHO.
Scot, I draw your attention to a credo that I've shared on these pages before:
If an item has three characteristics that say that it doesn't agree with known characteristics by that maker (ie. the one you're comparing it to), then it isn't by the same maker. Conversely, if there are three characteristics that are the same it is probably by the same maker.
I used to say three in common meant that it was by the same maker, BUT, I caught myself out over a few items, so I now say probably.
This is a good safeguard to making erroneous assumptions based on too little information and the hope, or wish, that an item is something that it ain't. We all get caught out from time to time, but questioning attribution is a very good habit for any collector to do - and a must for any dealer. Oh, and we all hope something might be better than it actually is - no matter how long we've been collecting, or even dealing!
Whatever it is, your piece is aesthetically very pleasing and a nice find.
Kind wishes, Nigel
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Scott it's always difficult to see colour on monitors but I seem to think that the small bowl has a hint more blue to it.
It 'appears' to my eye to be very slightly different to the Stuart which is more green green and again to what I think I've seen of Stevens and Williams green which has a slight grey tint to the green.
But colour might only be the first port of call ... as Nigel says, then you have to check the rest :)
I'm curious about the finish - is it slightly iridescent or is that just the photo and the glass is just very shiny?
and does it 'ting' when you flick the rim? is it very fine? probably not because of the size perhaps.
And I would say based on the size, that it was probably a salt.
m
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Hi m,
They look essentially the same to me - but colours aren't my forte.
If you can see a hint of blue then I'm sure there is a hint of blue.
Can we go to the easy part now ? ;D
There's no iridescence and the glass is very shiny.
When flicked the glass does give out a high pitched 'ting'.
Its been very finely made, the body is slightly ribbed ( if that's the right description) and the pontil mark is perfectly circular.
I never thought of a salt..........
Many thanks for your interest :)
Scott
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:)
as I say on a monitor it can be quite difficult to tell if they are very close so I could be completely wrong.
I was just curious because as Nigel has mentioned names, many of them did some form of dark green.
I always like to have just a little bit more info than the picture on it's own as it helps me to build a picture in my head :)
It's very tiny, I would assume made as a salt yes. I have a Thomas Webb (definitely) salt, it is 6cm diameter and 3.5cm to the top of the highest pull on the fluted rim. It has a fluted rim like yours - mine has 8 pulls down to form the rim flutes. Yours also. Mine is a very similar shape to yours but has been blown into a different mold. It also isn't as 'wide' in the body as yours is in profile pictures.
m
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Hi m,
They seem to have a lot in common - feel as if things are moving in the right direction now. :)
Now it's up to me.
And yes, definitely a salt
Many thanks
Scott
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quote .................. "And yes, definitely a salt" ............ not so sure we have the evidence to be that certain of its intended use.
the bulbous profile and frilly rim are not what would normally be expected on a salt - sorry to be troublesome but my own humble opinion is that this was intended as a small posy vase - it just looks too fancy, and lacks any sort of utility appearance, for a salt - but as I say, just my opinion:)
m - do you have evidence to support your T/Webb piece as being categorically a salt.
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Hi,
Its been called a :- vase(me), bowl(you), posy vase(me) and salt(m)--so take your pick.
I think it's too small to be a posy vase, so I'm going to stick with the 'salt'.
Because salt is hygroscopic its design ( bulbous ) may have been intended to slow down the absorption of moisture - at any rate its a possibility. :)
Scott
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Paul, you're right, I don't have evidence it's a salt.
But they are so small that, with a small silver salt spoon, they would be perfect and they match (more or less) the size for salts from numerous makers.
The shape would allow a small salt spoon to sit slanted into the bowl without danger of tipping out. Trust me, I've spent the last I don't know how many years trying to find the perfect salt dispenser for granulated salt and rock salt and spent a small fortune ... only to find ourselves this month using a small white eggcup (my Thomas Webb salt is not for using lol) and an Old Hall icing sugar shaker c.1970 for the granulated. Nothing else works as well. The rock salt is going in cooking food un-ground at the moment.
However ... I was going to say that it might be a violet/posy vase, but honestly the opening at the neck is too big to support them properly, you'd need a big fat handful and then it's only 4cm tall if you see what I mean. And then I found this painting which appears to be a jug with violets in - see, I think that small thin flower stems need something to hold them up:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-19th-C-Signed-Framed-amp-Matted-Victorian-Violet-Flower-Vase-Painting-/201507736847
So ... I'm sticking with salt at the moment :) But no, not from a pattern design confirmation admittedly.
m
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well, who knows then - just that I seemed to remember we'd had frilly-rimmed very short bulbous shaped things here before and they'd been described as posy vases - aren't there such things in Gulliver, and I don't recall him speaking of salts..... but could be memory going. As much as anything else it was the bulbous shape that somehow didn't seem right for a salt, but obviously this one could be used as a salt regardless of its original design intentions.
I've been collecting Old Hall for several years - not seriously or obsessively but just the odd piece when on my travels around the bric-a-brac and flea markets etc., plus the odd one from charity shops - most of which is the smooth surfaced sort, but occasionally I do find the odd hammered piece, which is more attractive. I don't yet have a sugar shaker - perhaps they're a lot less common.
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it was £1.50 in the charity shop - works well for the salt as long as you don't tip it up too much.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Vintage-Retro-brushed-stainless-steel-sugar-shaker-OLD-HALL-/401249735212?hash=item5d6c59122c:g:pLgAAOSw~gRVumVu
I LOVE Old Hall - the designs are perfect.
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thanks for the link m .......... Have to say I'm also a sucker for 'Picquot' Ware - love that satin finish to he alooooominum - I have a cupboard full of the stuff - but we digress too much ;D
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Hi, I'm really sorry for backtracking ( you must be sick to death of this "salt" ) however I have to say when looked at on its own, in different lights, I can sometimes pick out a slight hint of blue.
Of course I should have known that the colours of two objects placed next to each other interact and as a consequence can change our perception of them.
Possibly this occurs to an even greater extent if you place 'little' and 'large' side by side.
I think you possibly hinted that this effect might have been taking place.
Anyway, yes I can see a slight hint of blue - which isn't present in my WF sea green vase.
So it's probably not WF -perhaps in this case I could use ' definitely '
No forget it - I'm definitely not going to use 'definitely' again ;D
I don't know where this might take us - probably nowhere :)
Thanks
Scott
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Where you are so far:
Well Nigel said (my bold):
Hello,
Powell, Richardson, Webb and Stuart (and possibly Walsh Walsh and Webb Corbett) all used versions of dark green. This small bowl/vase is not Sea Green, but rather a dark green. Compare known Sea-Green by Whitefriars/Powell with this and you instantly see the difference.
I believe you will find a similar, wrythen, example by Thomas Webb within an article written by Lesley Jackson in the Glass Association Journal No5, 1997, where she uses a copy of an advert from The Pottery Gazette as an illustration.
Cheers, Nigel
- I linked to a similar shaped piece in Thomas Webb's Iris to give an example of a wrythen Thomas Webb piece
- I have a definite Thomas Webb small salt (?)with eight pulls and in a similar shape and similar dimensions and in a similar 'heft' of glass (as is the Iris).
- You have now confirmed the colour probably isn't the same green as that on your Whitefriars vase.
So at the moment it looks like it is:
probably a Thomas Webb piece
possibly a salt (?)
possibly just a pretty design bowl shaped piece (?) in miniature.
m :)