Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Della on January 14, 2017, 05:47:52 PM
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Hi all,
This tankard is driving me crazy.
Incredibly well made with ground and polished pontil scar.
I can't find anything like it on the net & I am presuming it is probably a studio piece?
Any suggestions welcomed.
TIA
x
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Hi Della,
Stevens & Williams Abbey Glass may be worth a look.
Greg
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This decor has been discussed on the board before I think.
As Greg says, if you search Abbey glass the discussion should come up hopefully.
I can't remember whether it was determined that the decor was or was not.
I've had some waved tankards that have defied id - also a discussion along with jugs that come in the same wave pattern.
I might try and dig out the wave pattern one to see if it's the same shape.
This vase was sold as Abbey
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/fieldings-auctioneers-ltd/catalogue-id-srfi10025/lot-8a61f606-a395-4adc-a6fe-a44800dd408f
And I think there might be an example on the black country museums website to compare.
m
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Cheers, chaps ;D I will go and do a search and read some.
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I did have some of these, once ............. http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56938.msg322700.html#msg322700 all gone back to the charity shop - sometimes you regret parting with these things, although that usually happens only when someone like Della comes on the scene ;D I just have to keep telling myself "you can't keep everything".
there may of course be other threads on this type of glass, but I remembered this one since it was mine.
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Ooh, they are lovely!
Wish they'd landed in a charity shop near me, Paul 8)
My collecting is terrible! Still have things to unpack from years ago and quickly running out of shelf/cupboard/ledge, even floor space, but getting some nice surprises along the way too :P
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The short vase has a look of a Stevens and Williams piece to me - but that might just be my sub-conscience. Is it similar to a 'rainbow' decor shape I've seen perhaps?
I don't know about the taller ones. I sometimes think they look 'Nazeing' ish in shape (in my head) but that might just be the bulbous bottom.
There's another shape out there that is squat and double bulbous. It might be on the board.
Will have a look
m
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These are sold as Stevens & Williams Abbey decanters
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/fieldings-auctioneers-ltd/catalogue-id-2792325/lot-8686857
for some reason the decor looks slightly different - brighter (might be the camera work) and less spaced out colour iyswim?
I've always thought there appeared to be some that were more speckly than others.
m
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Not seen one of these for ages, then along comes two ::) ;D ;D
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The decor on most of the pieces looks very different to the decanters.
I'm wondering why?
Ok, here goes - this is an Abbey vase from the Black County history collection
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH2757/
The decor looks different to me to those with speckly pieces with lots of clear glass in between patches of colour.
This and the decanters looks to be much less speckly and more patches of colour rather than splashes.
m
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Shapewise it reminds me of my mystery uranium speckled one we looked at years ago, Della http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21920.0.html
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It would be more than helpful if museums would provide the source of their attributions/provenance - most academic works, at least those on paper, have an obligation to provide their reference sources. Perhaps it's a case that some do and some don't, and probably the Black Country can tell us if we ask. But you can't accuse this type of glass of being unattractive - it's quite beautiful............. now where was that charity shop.... :'(
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Your vase would look lovely with my tankard, Keith.
I see what you mean, M, with regard to the décor, more blotchy than speckled.
I do think that your tankard is related to mine in some way, Anne. The handle, the pontil scar, the shape and, even though the colours are different, they look more or less like they could be siblings.
Hmm .............. ???
They are lovely, Paul and I wish our charity shops had donors like you :o
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This is a link to an Abbey glass decanter (claret jug but possibly was originally a decanter?) here on the board
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45011.msg250949.html#msg250949
To me, this one, the pair of decanters via Fieldings and the gourd shaped vase all have similar decor, i.e. the colours, the way the colour is laid on, and also the effect and type of fissures or crackle on the pieces.
The tankard and the other coloured speckled pieces in Paul's link do not look the same decor to me and imho :-[
Oh, here is another thread where this decor was discussed.
It does include links to two other threads as well
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43668.msg243877.html#msg243877
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,33780.msg182750.html#msg182750
and the other
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21920.msg123630.html#msg123630
m
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I must admit that after going through a lot of Stevens & Williams / Royal Brierley stuff at the archives I don't remember seeing any like these ::)
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No, I am not convinced and still not convinced.
I'm going to add the word Elwell to this thread just in case, especially in light of the shape of Paul's vases.
m
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It would be more than helpful if museums would provide the source of their attributions/provenance - most academic works, at least those on paper, have an obligation to provide their reference sources. Perhaps it's a case that some do and some don't, and probably the Black Country can tell us if we ask. But you can't accuse this type of glass of being unattractive - it's quite beautiful............. now where was that charity shop.... :'(
That piece (the double bulbous i.e. gourd shaped vase in the Black Country Museums collection) is in Charles Hajdamach 20th century British Glass pp 109 and is marked as follows:
'... Heights ... 61/4in. (15.8cm) marked with a fleur-de-lis and 'S&W/Abbey/H. Nicholl'.
Oh and... I've remembered what Paul's shorter vase of the three reminds me of .. not S&W but a Strathearn shape albeit a taller version.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/shapes-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srsha10025/lot-b74ceb94-dc69-4ddb-9bb2-a4560084c8c0
In fact, so do the two taller ones,but the Strathearn version I'm thinking of has a more flared out body to rim i.e. is fatter rather than Paul's slimmer version:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/thomas-r-callan/catalogue-id-srthomas10004/lot-e7323931-5ac0-4e47-9e57-a48700a62c6b
Elwell -
this is a green fishbowl shaped vase with the fainter crackle on it only on the lower half mostly and labelled Elwell
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4084
So a design made for Elwell but not in the speckly version. Wonder if it's the same maker? and who? Nazeing?
m
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Just for curiosity's sake
I'm adding this vase - made in 1854 by Bacchus and bought from the factory for the V&A
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O202/vase-george-bacchus-and/
the V& A says
'Purchased from the factory in 1854 for 16/- (= 80p). This is an early example of British manufacturers attempting to copy old Italian techniques. []'
enjoy :)
m
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Very pretty, M.
That would have been a fortune, back then! :o
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Interesting you say that Della, I've been questioning exactly how 'accessible' a set of engravings from a Mr Kirk would have been to the public in 1804 if they were apparently priced at £2.2s
Presumably quite 'in' accessible in fact then?
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This claret jug was determined to be Abbey glass from Stevens and Williams
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45011.msg250949.html#msg250949
it doesn't have the same look as the Della's mug at all:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64180.0;attach=199963;image
But ... this vase signed W& C England for Webb Corbett does seem to have similarities in colour (it matches a shape in a Webb Corbett Agate Flambe advert in CH British Glass and also a piece on the Black Country History website)
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/10408132_w-and-c-cluthra-glass-vase-art-glass-england-tapered
just wondering... like you do.
On the minus side, I've not seen any Webb Corbett Agate Flambe containing the green splotches that can be seen in the mug and the other pieces.
It's not identical I know. But when I saw it, it immediately reminded me of this mug and decor,so just putting it in the discussion.
I'm not sure Webb Corbett has been suggested for these odd mugs/tankards that never get an id, and there isn't any reason why it shouldn't be them I don't think.
m
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Thanks for keeping an eye out for this tankard, M.
I think in future I will stick with glass I know, but I can't help myself ::) ::) ::)
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Della it's a really pretty decor. I can't believe we've not cracked this one yet because there are a few pieces around to get a guide on shapes.
m