Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brucebanner on January 22, 2017, 03:06:06 PM
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Any thoughts on this one, just about hanging together with four internal cracks, i think might be Georgian but can not find anything similar.
5 1/2 inches in height, 4 inches across the rimand 3 1/4 inches across the base.
Regards Chris.
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shot of the monogram.
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Hello Chris, good to meet you at last, is that the one you went back for ? it has the old style handle, dab ? is it called ? if I'd have seen that I might have scooped it up ;D
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Yes, got it down to £10, good to see you to mate, filled all the cracks in with UV glue, so i've got my fingers crossed it won't fall apart.
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I wonder if it's a pint tankard from about 1780,I have seen a similar glass described as such and it will be interesting to hear what others think,I wouldn't have hesitated for a tenner. :)
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Half pint maybe, hopefully the glue will stop it from getting any worse, does look like it from the few Google images there are.
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too big for some sort of sweetmeat glass do we think? The pulley-wheel feature almost certainly suggests somewhere from 1800 to 1830, but to be honest I've now forgotten the approximate start and end dates for this decoration. I wouldn't have thought alcohol, but who knows? Such a shame about the cracks, but a very unusual and interesting looking piece.
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What do you think the ladel means Paul.
Why ladel beer ?
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the thinking behind my suggestion of a sweetmeat related item came from the overall appearance which first off made me think that this was an over-sized jelly or custard - unfortunately it wasn't from a knowledge based idea, so rather my uneducated opinion. But, since my post I've now had a look in G. Bernard Hughes 'English Glass For The Collector 1660 - 1860', and plate 39 - bottom right - shows what I would also call a very over-sized custard/jelly, and standing at 6.25 inches. However, the author who obviously knew shed loads more than me, describes it as a 'helmet-shaped' - it stands on a flat foot with rudimentary stem with bladed knop and collar under bowl. Admittedly it has a flared top rim - hence the word 'helmet-shaped', and of course it has the pre-mid C19 pump style of handle. Hughes call his example a 'tankard', but annoyingly doesn't provide a date, although I suspect late C18 or early C19.
I've certainly seen pulley-wheel decoration on rinsers and finger bowls from the Regency period (1810 - 1830).
Hughes example does have the pulley decoration, but doesn't have your - is it folded top rim? - and lacks any wheel engraved decoration. But the overall appearance is sufficiently similar to confirm your first thought that this is for alcohol and either a tankard, or punch glass in view of the ladle.
Originally, I also wondered about a large syllabub glass.
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Has a pint or half pint glass changed much over the centuries, why put a handle on it, does not make sense? and a pot with a ladel must mean at least six or eight or forty or eighty or 400 servings.
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would be great to at least know the reasoning behind Hughes comments, but think it's a bit late now to ask him :)
My opinion is that yours is too small to be a serving rummer, or serving punch glass............ punch glasses, or at least those I've owned, have always been a lot smaller than this one ........... the ladle image is intriguing - perhaps they 'ladled' syllabub into this one.
Knowing as we do the art of producing glasses c. 1750 - 1830 ish, they gave a lot more thought to fine glass ware with thinner structure than the crowd that came after William IV, and the Georgians had tankards with more finesse than the Victorian heavyweights, plus many more designs were 'blown' since the advent of mass produced mould made items was a little way off.
I think early tankards were made both with and without handles - straps and round section. As it's cracked I'd chuck it and move on to the next gem ;) ;)
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Flips could have been made in a large pot and the ladled into tankards,?..warmed with a hot poker and you have a perfect Monday morning pick me up.
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Can't chuck it Paul it could be the only one left, it's a struggle to date anything on colour as it seems to vary so much, in fact the older the glass the clearer it looks, i've thought this one (that's also in bad shape) is not quite Victorian.
You think you will not find them but there are always more gems.
2 3/4 inches in height.
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I like that one :)
why do you think it's not quite Victorian?
Perhaps made at one of the smaller makers?
I'm sure I've read something about that claw type dab somewhere but can't think where.
m
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that attachment is reminiscent of T/Webb's Registered designs - a shell-like form of decoration - but this one is far more crude and less refined than Webb's, so I would say definitely not theirs.
It's good sometimes to keep these unusual pieces - I've certainly kept some cracked and damaged pieces that I have a fondness for. :)
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Absolutely keep pieces with no commercial investment,it's not the only barometer of worth.
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I try to only keep the 'unusual' ones - by that I mean 'I've ' never seen another one, or that the technique used was unusual (so might be kept for further research).
Your trailed pot would fall into that category :) The top reminds me of Webb, the trailing and colour of it reminds me of Hodgetts Richardson pieces, but the glass quality and the pontil mark don't fall into those categories. The pontil mark might be excusable (a trial piece? not finished off?) but the glass quality makes it look maybe older?
m
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Yes, as i'm swimming in Victorian glass i can safely say this sticks out a mile that's why i think it might be an earlier one.
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difficult call - I do know what you mean I think, i.e. taking the bits in the glass, the look of the glass, the pontil mark etc into account it looks old ... however, the claw dab on the rigaree raises a bit of a query - would that be seen on older glass? Perhaps try searching for rigaree glass or something and see what comes up.
m
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Ive got a lot of old glass to look at and it does not fit in with the Victorian decorative glass i have, i found an early Georgian jelly today, about 1730 this time in good condition which is also white not grey, it really is confusing, i'm wondering if the colour has anything to do with the amount of light a piece of glass has been exposed to over the years?.
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The colour does depend on the amount of UV something has received but only if it contains manganese decoloriser. High quality sand such as from Loch Aline did not require decoloriser
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I believe we did chat on colour some time back - if I remember correctly the origin of the lead oxide also affects the colour of the glass, at least on British produced pieces. Believe Christine is suggesting that the u.v. causes the manganese to head a little toward the purple shade - i.e. sun purpling.
would like to see the jelly Chris, if possible - is it a 'nipt diamond waies' job or honeycome-moulded piece
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No idea and scared of going off topic.
Here it is £3 today.
Wafer thin and 119 grams in weight.
3 3/4 inches in height. 8 section rib moulded.
Going by the sweetmeat in Therle Hughes page 31 and others online.
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can you post it in a separate thread please? :D
It's so hard to search and find items if the items are merged in on topic.
Thanks
m
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As a thread develops why not add to it?.
I'm talking colour, age.
I can't see a problem.
I would like to put the last 5 things i have got next to this to show colour variation but i have not got the time to show them individual it takes about 20 min to show one.
It's all relevant.
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oh, ok, I thought you were looking for an id for the sweetmeat :)
my apologies.
m
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I really appreciate everyones help btw :)
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that was probably my fault m for encouraging Chris to add an unrelated item here;) Chris - as a suggestion, why not start a new thread in the next day or two, called - 'Additives affecting the colour of glass' or some such........ :)
P.S. you don't get id's for sweetmeats m - you may argue over age/date or style, but never id ;D I wanted to see this piece so my fault.
Assume you're taking the bowl pattern and raised foot, from the left hand example Chris, to compare with yours. In the Tim Udall collection there were pieces virtually identical to yours and the Delomosne description reads............ "Panel moulding, sometimes called rib-moulding, seems to be the most favoured treatment of vessel glass, certainly in the middle fifty years of the C18, the period in which all of these five glasses fall" - (there's a b. & w. plate showing five jellies/custards accompanying this text, both with and without handles. It would be difficult to say definitely 1730 as these things are impossible to date with precision.
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Good for 3 quid though.
chuck in local sand as Christine suggests.
I don't think other pictures can be unrelated as long as they are linked to the op.
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more than good ......... I'd say stonkingly good for £3, and a heartwarming find at a cold February boot sale. Can we categorize Loch Aline as local - depends where you live I guess.
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Got myself a pint one now, in good order, hurry up dry January!.
It measures 6 1/4 inches in height with a rim diameter of 4 1/2 inches.
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very nice - tho personally I consider it's unfair that we mere mortals have to compete with those who get to rummage around out the back of charity shops. ;) Having said that I have persuaded some of the ladies to put fountain pens by for when I visit - suspect it's just the handsomeness that appeals ;D
I did a dry January last year, and managed to get thru until the evening of the 31st, but didn't feel as tho I'd cheated by weakening over those last few hours, and have taken the plunge again for this month, but when the evening meal comes round irritation and tetchiness sets in. At the moment I could murder a Barley Gold beer, or a large dry white wine - and I do miss Scotch in the coffee! :'(
Have to say that I haven't felt remotely any better health for not drinking