Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Della on January 22, 2017, 06:17:12 PM
-
Hi all,
I have searched the board and the nearest description that I can find is in this thread: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21266.msg119818.html#msg119818
Where Bernard (RIP) explained that the base of the one he was trying to describe had gadroons all the way up the base.
This is only half a dog and made with what seems to be left over glass. The edges are now finished in any way, shape, or form, in fact, very crude.
Could this have been made by someone with time, left over glass and a half a mold?
Or am I totally and utterly wrong!?
3 5/8" (92mm)in height
6" (53mm)long
1.25" (32mm) deep
TIA
Della
x
-
ooh I'm thinking Guy ... Bermondsey Glass Madonna when I saw that.
It looks poured into a mould kind of.
edited
Guy Underwood
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/art-deco-glass-bermondsey-guy-537440626
I have seen this Madonna I think, in a much clearer glass less colour.
Landseer dog shown here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Landseer_Saved.jpg
Also reminds me of Hartley Wood 1930s glass for some reason.
m
-
Yes, it was poured into a mould, M.
And I see what you mean about the Madonna - Guy Underwood. :)
-
oops sorry just edited my post
to add reminds me of Hartley Wood glass as well (just in case those ideas lead to anything).
-
if you put this link into google a 'very rare Percival Vickers dog' picture should come up on the search. Ebay link gone but the pic shows on the search. It doesn't seem to look like yours though.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=percival+vickers+newfoundland&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB719GB719&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiT0Ir_x9bRAhULvBoKHVuXBXkQ_AUICSgC&biw=1366&bih=662#tbm=isch&q=percival+vickers+dog&imgrc=kt9MSeUVu0KBwM%3A
Also I wouldn't call the pattern around the 'base' or 'stand' of yours, gadrooning. So probably not from the same family.
Yours is a really lovely design!
m
-
see link above and also is yours like this? I think it's the same dog and design?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-OF-VICTORIAN-BLUE-GLASS-MANTLE-DOGS-PERFECT-CONDITION-4-034-TALL-6-1-2-034-LONG-/262789781488?
seller is from the Midlands (just in case that might give a steer to maker .. i.e. Midlands v North West/East
-
No, nothing like at all.
This really is very crudely made. Poured into a mould, which is actually quite detailed, then popped out. The edges are all unfinished and rough. The base and back are also untreated in any way. Hmm ???
-
Della do you mean nothing like the Percival Vickers apparently design?
I posted another above - think yours is the same design as that one.
-
The dog is the same in that link, M. Just a different base. But they even have the crossed over legs.
Nothing like the Vickers dog, I meant, M, sorry.....
-
ok, so you have yours and a pair - the pair also don't look particularly beautifully finished at the edges do they? Difficult to tell.
Their bases are different to yours but the dog is the same.
Interesting ...
Wonder why they are 'unfinished' at the edges - a mold available and with glass available but no finisher? odd.
-
ah, is this yours?
http://1st-glass.1st-things.com/gallery-victorian/slides/bottleglassdog1850.html
Ohh totally exciting = made using a doorstop mould from 1820
-
And the pair on Ebay just 25 miles away from me ............
And another pair http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matching-pair-of-old-antique-Victorian-Green-Crown-Glass-Dog-flatback-doorstops-/311631988874
-
yes and what's very interesting is that your particular piece appears to match the design on the cast iron door stop itself.
m
-
We must have posted simultaneously, as I missed your link to the cast iron dog.
That's him, but in glass! ;D
I've been looking all afternoon!
Thank you, M!!!! x :-*
-
You're welcome :)
He's lovely.
I wonder if he is vaguely contemporary to the cast iron doorstop i.e. 1820 ish which might explain why he is kind of 'unfinished' round the edges?
m
-
More than likely, M.
I said to my OH that he was old, you can 'feel' that he is.
Maybe they added the feet to the glass ones to add stability, with the extra weight.
I still can't believe you found him so quickly :P
-
I would think they are contemporary to the cast iron versions.
There's a picture of the bottle green dog mentioned above in a fairly old book by John Sandon on antique glass, which states: 'English bottle factories produced ornaments as cheap sidelines alongside bottle production. Moulds for cast iron mantlepiece dogs were adapted for use with molten glass, but much detail was lost. Mid-19th century.'
-
That would definitely give an answer as to why the edges are unfinished, Greg.
Thank you. ;)
-
Hi Della
I was always told they were made with the left over glass from the bottle works very much like the green glass dumps with flowers. Most of the ones I have seen are always in bottle glass colours like the green , blue and brown.
I have a pair in a brown colour.
I have also recently seen a similar style item of a basket of flowers which was flat backed and that was very much in a bottle blue colour.
Roy
-
I think the ones with feet look like cast iron grates that would slot into the front of a dog basket (at least ours looks like that with the little feet on it - it slides down and creates the front of the basket)
So I'm wondering if those pairs with the feet were adapted/designed to sit either side of the fireplace on the floor to kind of match the cast iron grates that slot into a dog basket of the fire?
Greg that's great information :)
oops sorry Roy, only just seen your additional info.
Della, he's a fabulous find - particularly since he has the matching moulding around the base and is not green :)
m
-
No, no green. Clear with blue swirls and a small brown swirl.
Are the edges on yours finished off better than mine, Roy? I suppose it was all down to whoever made them and how much time they had for fancyfying (my word for today) :P
Thanks for posting the photo too, Roy. 8)
-
Not ever seen one your colour, looks like they may of mixed some of the left over glass without to much mixing. Almost a very early marbled ( slag) glass.
-
it's cheating really, isn't it? to have half a dog only.......... makes me think of the Staffordshire flat-backs of standing couples and dogs etc. in ceramics, and of course to make only half a dog requires a much simpler one piece mould, so not a complex job, and achievable by less experienced worker.
But the point I wanted to make was.......... m how can you make even the remotest connection with this dog and the Bermondsey Maddona? Where is the art deco influence apparent in this half a dog? Now if you'd said the colouring looked almost a bit Maltese, then I'd agree. The Maddona is in a different league altogether. ;)
Sorry Della - not a doggy person, so regret can't help. :)
-
hey, I found the dog didn't I? didn't take long.
Sometimes it's the brain-storming that helps those connections :) who knows how my brain links things together :-[ and I don't know where I remember seeing it from but I'd seen it before on that site because I remembered the cast iron link.
The Madonna? I've seen one in much clearer glass with swirly coloured bits in it quite like the glass of Della's dog, so that was my first thought - and nothing is known of Guy Underwood and Bermondsey really, so who's to know that he didn't make something similar in a poured mold type way I suppose was the way I was thinking. He also made some fish. So I suppose I made that link to the glass similarity and animals.
Then I thought it through and suddenly thought it might be very old and bingo.
I find brain-storming very beneficial in research, even if the thought is completely wrong, it often leads to the right connection :)
m
-
;D :-*
-
:) Paul, Della, this is the Madonna head that I called to mind - it's very blue swirly with a hint of brown.
http://www.glassmaking-in-london.co.uk/later-glasshouses
quote: ' Blue glass moulded head by Guy Underwood. Ht. c. 5 inches. The bubbly quality of the glass is appropriate for that of a bottle factory.'
Which is why I wondered if Guy Underwood had a hand in casting those half dogs - maybe even from a very old cast if you see what I mean.
and since it was a bottle glass factory ... well, perhaps they made browny amber ones as well and maybe even green? :)
-
thanks :) - I see some dirt, but not brown .......... I thought metal was cast and glass was pressed or moulded ;) ;) Sorry - for me the colours are too different to suggest some/any connection, and not now too sure that I see much of an art déco influence in the blue head - perhaps a little of Eric Gill there maybe.
-
Nope, I've got to disagree :) if you enlarge the head I'm sure there are brown streaks in the glass.
Glass can be cast as well ;)
I'm sure now thinking about it, that I've seen some swirly bookends from Guy Underwood/Bermondsey as well.
I'm going to have a search. (just in case, you understand :))
-
Ooh, just come across this long thread which I shall digest later, here are some of my fathers collection, the only one I think we know the maker is the blue one in the middle, I think it's Percival Vickers.
The bottom row are made from left over glass so I've been told.
Cheers Mike
See below attachment
-
Hi Mike
I think the blue dog is a Thomas Kidd dog.
Roy
-
Hi Roy, there are some blue upright Thomas Kidd ones on eBay at the moment in the similar colour, we had this as unknown for years, i comes across a black milk glass one on the 1st glass website And the Manchester glass history website 2016 exhibition page has some figurines with a similar mould pattern around the Base which I thought were Percival Vickers?
Cheers Mike