Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: antonizz on January 24, 2017, 10:58:57 PM
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Hey everybody,
I just received these 2 glass lidded boxes today.
I'm not sure if it's pressed glass or crystal.
But they're both signed with a "B" on the bottom.
The reason I bought these boxes....
A couple of months ago I saw the exact same round box,
also signed with a "B", sold as Baccarat.
(of course I can't find it now)
I started buying glass and antiques etc. for maybe 6/7 months,
so I'm not really experienced.
I hope somebody can tell me how old these boxes are and if they
are indeed baccarat, or maybe not.
Thanks in advance!
R.Antonis
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hope this helps
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/decorative-objects/boxes/decorative-boxes/signed-baccarat-crystal-table-box/id-f_4059573/?utm_content=test¤cy=gbp&gclid=CNOCi6ny29ECFVTNGwod0C8IrA
I'm sorry I don't know anything about this type of crystal but perhaps someone else will be along who can.
m
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@flying free,
Thank you very much. This could as well be the one I saw.
Thought it was the round box, but I noticed that.. or I believe that
most of the older boxes are having a gold mount, or ormolu mount.
Maybe that means mines are 'newer'.
But what is new?
Whether it's pressed glass or crystal, I wouldn't know.
Somebody from a glass shop in my town told me a couple months before,
that, for the value, it doesnt really make any difference whether if it's pressed or crystal.
Never really believed that though.
Anyway thanks for your time, and let's hope somebody knows ...
Also have 2 "crystal" vases coming in in 2 days.
Maybe I'll link it to this post, if anybody's interested.
:)
R.Antonis
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I don't think I've seen this mark before, had a quick look in a couple of books but couldn't find it either... but then, there's always something new to discover, maybe somebody else has seen this mark before.
Baccarat did use this cut design, not called 'Russe' as in the earlier link but called 'Pierreries', but the round shaped cabochons are not 'in formation' and in straight lines. The square cabochons are in formation, but on your pieces they're round.
I thought something from this period would have been signed like shown in the images shown in the link
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/122324246107?rmvSB=true (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/122324246107?rmvSB=true)
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There is another one for sale here.
I don't know whether it is marked.
But is does have the intermittent pattern.
http://www.alexiaamatoantiques.com/en-GB/french-bohemian-caskets/antique-baccarat-crystal-glass-casket-box/prod_10556#.WIfsGVWLTIU
Appears to be this one
https://www.rubylane.com/item/513876-687/Antique-Turquoise-Baccarat-Crystal-Glass-Casket
m
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Yes, the one you just linked has the same "B".
In the meantime, I have found 2 on liveauctioneers.
These two boxes are exactly the same.
(Haven't measured them yet)
1) https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/17556909_baccarat-glass-box
2) https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/14367310_baccarat-crystal-box-signed-b
Pretty sure now, that I made a good deal.
I paid (can I say that??) $18,00 for the pair.
:)
I think I'll clean them up and "digitally bring them" to liveauctioneers.
FlyingFree, thank you very much for your help!!
I know you helped me before on some other topics.
If you can send private messages here, please send me your e-mail adress.
When, and if I've sold them in a few weeks/months, I'll give you a small percentage.
R.Antonis
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By the way..
One link says it's crystal,
and the other says it's pressed glass.
Maybe the glasshop-owner was right about the difference in value??
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Thank you for your kind thought but that is not necessary :)
I think you still have to work out if they are definitely Baccarat, that the impressed B mark is a correct mark for Baccarat if you see what I mean?
m
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Thank you. If you change your mind for whatever reason, you know where to find me.
About the "B"-mark... I'll just photograph it and mail it to them.
I assume they should know.
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:) they will know. It is worth trying and hoping that they respond to you.
They are lovely boxes.
m
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Yes indeed. And I have spotted 2 more second hand boxes,
Not described as Baccarat, same signature
A litte more expensive, but still <$60.
One with dish/plate, signed "B".
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Like M, it needs a bit more research before you can definitely attribute it to Baccarat.
I've never seen this mark before, not that this means anything, but this mark's nowhere documented for Baccarat and so far we've only seen auction- and sale results over here, without anything to back up their theory. The only B they've used was on paperweights with a date next to it, from what I could figure out.
Maybe I'm wrong and Baccarat will say yes, it's ours, but at least then you know for sure. For the moment we're just guessing.
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okay, I understand. :)
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this uncertainty of whether a piece of glass is pressed or cut seems to be a perennial problem, especially for folk who are new to glass collecting, and some of us who are not so new ;D
On the face of it there shouldn't be a problem............ pressed glass lacks sharpness of design/pattern, and often shows vertical (usually) lines created where the separate parts of the mould come together. Unfortunately, it's not always that simple, and top quality pressed glass is often fire treated to remove the mould seams, and a good quality mould made piece can run average quality cut glass a very close second.
The word crystal is used wrongly too often and appears on labels attached to many pieces of glass - clear or coloured - it should never appear on pressed/mould made glass. The term should perhaps be reserved for cut glass where the lead content is known to be high - which gives good refractive properties, and full lead crystal glass should probably contain around 34% oxide. On the face of it, it might be imagined that the word should be confined to clear cut glass, since there isn't going to be much in the way of light refraction from a piece of opaquely coloured glass.
For most purposes, certainly on the GMB, if you confine descriptions to using either 'cut' or 'pressed', then this will be adequate for most folk to understand what you mean - and yes, you can use the word 'paid' in that sense. :)
Looking at the op's lidded boxes in the first post, I assumed - possibly wrongly - that the pattern was what I tend to call 'hobnail', although not sure whether Anne or m have used that term in any of their posts. Not sure of the origin of this design, but it enjoyed a lot of popularity back in the second half of the C19 and into the early C20, appearing a lot in cut form on those heavy round, often silver lidded scent bottles - but also it seems on much pressed glass - I think Davidson in the U.K. produced an entire suite called hobnail, but could be wrong on that.
It should be possible to tell whether the design is cut or pressed - the former will feel a lot sharper, and under a lens some remains of the original cutting marks should still be visible. Reflected light, from within the cut surfaces of the mitres, should allow you to see the slight variation in levels of glass where the worker's hands moved ever so slightly during the cutting - no matter how careful the worker was, there is always some minute deviation in surface level, and by playing the light onto this area the grinding marks and variation can be seen.
Pressed glass avoids all of these visual effects, and shows simply as a smooth surface - plus the fact that the outline edges of the design will not usually be sharp.
Sorry this is boring and long-winded - nice boxes by the way, and sounds like good prices. :)
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Paul S. ,
Thank you very much for your information.
I'll definately save it for later.
In the meantime I've mailed the Baccarat company,
about the "B"-mark being official.
And this was the answer:
"Hello:
Unfortunately we cannot authenticate our product by description or picture.
What I would recommend is you contact a local appraiser in your area or we recommend:
Sotheby's at 212.606.7000 or
Christie's at 212.636.2000
Thank you for your interest in Baccarat.
Regards,
US Customer Service"
Didn't really help me.
I haven't asked if my 'piece' was authentic or not,
I asked if the "B"-mark was used on other glass, next to the paperweights.
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their response is disappointing. I did have some communication with them - in France - some four or five years back, and from memory they were very helpful. Perhaps this is a sign of the times.
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Yes maybe. But maybe they get 10.000 item related questions a day.
Who knows :p
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Hi antonizz,
I have removed your post about the "2 crystal vases" and the "bowl" as we prefer to keep items separate unless they add some value to the original thread.
Also, more importantly, as you have not received the "bowl" then the images you posted were, presumably, not yours. The Board policy is that 3rd party images must not be posted unless permission has been given by the copyright holder (and the permission stated in the post).
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I understand. ;)
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Hey everybody,
I found a new one yesterday.
Now on 1stdibs.
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/decorative-objects/boxes/decorative-boxes/signed-baccarat-crystal-table-box/id-f_4059573/
Liveauctioneers estimated my boxes €150-250 each,
and called it Baccarat.
What more can I say?
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quite a lot I'd imagine. ;)
the description of the featured item might have been written differently ....... straw does not account for the blemishes that may possibly have occurred at the time pf pressing, although it's likely the origin of this expression is the shape of such marks.
This piece is not signed - the B in a circle is a trade mark or part of a trade mark. Was there a fashion for polishing pressed glass??
From memory 'Russian' was a name used commonly in the States during the ABP period for a variation on the Hobnail pattern, but whether it was also used by Baccarat I've no idea.............. the origin of the expression is due to the fact that many of these 'hobnail' patterned pieces originated in Russia in the middle third of the C19 (as well as being made in France) - however they were cut examples and not pressed, and had gold mounts.
By implication, is it being alleged that this piece dates to the mid C19?
Seems a very high price for what is a pressed glass box with a base metal mount - but as they say.. if you can get it, take the money and run ;D
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Hey PaulS.,
Thanks for your response!
It didn't mention any dates.
I filled in the form: "Glass box" - (The same as the glass boxes in the links).
And placed the 2 links to the baccarat boxes.
They gave me an estimate. And I guess until when it's being auctioned,
I won't even see the descripion. Maybe they don't even add anything to my description.
I don't know.
BUT...
You can always place a bid ;D ;D ;D
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The last link was already posted by M on page 1...it was actually the very first reply... we've come full circle and are not much wiser concerning the mark. :D
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Haha that was sharp.
Unfortunately we didn't.
Maybe one day... ???
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On pressglass-korrespondenz Mr Geiselberger talks about this box and mark, bottom of the page in the link. If the B mark would have been used by Baccarat, surely he would be aware of this. Unidentified for the moment ... and the last 8 years.
https://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2009-3w-andersen-pressglas.pdf (https://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2009-3w-andersen-pressglas.pdf)
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Thank you very much for sharing this! :D