Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: keith on March 06, 2017, 07:10:20 PM
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Couldn't resist it was so cheap, 2 inches tall and 6 across with a small polished pontil mark. ;D ;D
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not my area Keith, but I seem to remember a post some couple of years in which there was discussion of Arabesque - it might even have been me waffling on, I really can't remember now. Will see if I can find that conversation....... could be wrong but this one doesn't look like Arabesque.
edited to add........ (because I was reading too quickly) - if you are referring to S. & W. did you mean to say Arboresque - as opposed to T/Webb's 'Arabesque'? Arboresque is discussed in 'The Crystal Years' page 23, but don't think there is a picture available.
Arabesque (aka Scale) is shown in C.H. on page 433
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the earlier post that I had in mind, was in fact discussing S. & W. 'Moresque' - so not relevant on this occasion. :)
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no, Paul you were right
There is a very long detailed thread about the Arboresque/Arabesque involving Cyril Manley's picture of an item that he says is one or other of these and says how it was made (I queried his description of how it was made and how he range- named the item).
I'll try and find it - wasn't that long ago.
m
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here you go
long and with no resolution I don't think
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55630.msg315266.html#msg315266
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I may be cracking up of course ;D - but I don't see any reference to 'Arabesque' in your links m ?? - as I say this is your area not mine, but I thought it was T.W. only who did 'Arabesque' - and only S. & W. who did 'Arboresque'.
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yes link here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55630.msg316884.html#msg316884
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Thanks for all the comments, but I think I'll come back tomorrow when I've had a little sleep, not all the brain cells are firing at the moment ! ::) ;D ;D ;D
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we aim to confuse Keith ;D ;D
My favourite auction house confusing things ....... again? What is very pertinent is the fact that R. S. Williams-Thomas, in his book 'The Crystal Years', makes no mention (and does not include in his index) the word 'Arabesque' ........... however, in his glossary of decorative effects he does include the term 'Arboresque', which he describes as............. "This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles."
You might think that with its prefix, the word was telling us the appearance was going to have a tree bark-like effect - and you could argue that the fissured appearance is just that, although not so sure you could say that W.T. words are describing that sort of appearance.
I can't believe that with his knowledge of S. & W. - and his inclusion of all the other terms of descriptive decoration from that factory - that this author would have omitted 'Arabesque' had it been an S. & W. invention, and my opinion is that this is another instance of confusion due to similarity of sound and spelling - then compounded over the years by repetition by other folk. S. & W. would also I'm sure have been well aware of T/Webb's own decorative effect which Webb had called 'Arabesque', a long time before the birth of 'Arboresque'.
Most folk would have some feeling for an interpretation of the word 'Arabesque' - a sort of middle-eastern Moorish/Iznik geometric decoration, but the same people might struggle to define 'Arboresque'.
Harold Newman, in his 'Illustrated Dictionary of Glass', defines 'Arabesque' as ........... "In Islamic art, a flat decoration of intricate interlaced lines and bands and abstract ornaments adapted larges from classical sources. As a popular Moorish decoration..........etc. etc. "
This description might apply to similar Islamic decorative styles which we've discussed before, such as 'Moresque' and 'Arabesque' - I've now forgotten - were they both T/Webb? .... styles that are rigidly geometric as in most Iznik art.
But for my money I'm of the opinion that the clincher is the fact that Williams-Thomas makes no mention in his book of 'Arabesque'.
This is of course all Keith's fault for starting this thread. ;) ;)
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quote from Paul and something I noted on the previous thread I've linked to in my post above:
'...however, in his glossary of decorative effects he does include the term 'Arboresque', which he describes as............. "This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles."'
this description matches the decor of what we 'call' the 'rainbow' range from Stevens and Williams.
I queried in the other thread whether in fact 'Arboresque' was indeed what we call the 'rainbow' range.
iirc I don't think I could find a mention of 'Arabesque' as a range for Stevens and Williams.
Hmm,and btw I found the maker of a crackle glass lampshade I have that fades to yellow around the very decorative and hand done edges. Czech I believe. I will try and find it as there is a link to their catalogues on the thread iirc. You might try looking through those to see if your bowl is in there.
ah
Schreiber & Neffen
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/P_1894-1896.pdf
m
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coloured art glass isn't really my area, but I get the impression that this fractured/fissured decorative effect must have been popular between the two world wars ......... I see that the Scottish Monart appear to have made use of it, and believe those pieces are referred to as 'Cloisonné', but not certain.
Not quite sure how the name of an intaglio enamelled process on metalwork transfers to glass, but there's no end to peoples' inventiveness. :)
Am sure I've also seen a similar decorative effect on some big name Continental makes, but can't remember names now.
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Thanks Paul, I maybe more confused now than I was last night ::) think you and m are right probably not S&W's, didn't see anything like this in the archives,
M, have looked all through the file, some interesting looking shapes around page 188, thanks again for looking both, now where can it go ? ::) ;D ;D
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Well we don't know yet that it's not English. The rim is quite distinctive. Have you had a look in Gulliver?
But perhaps would sit well with your Kralik or Bohemian pieces ?
m
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Did look but couldn't find anything, will have to check Craig's site in the morning, ;D