Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brucebanner on July 23, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
-
I think the best quality wise glass i have bought this year it looks like it should belong in a museum, hand cut and i'm really rough guessing made locally 1840's in Stourbridge.
Three scenes all cut.
Any thought's welcome.
It measures 12 inches in height.
Regards Chris.
-
no reason Chris, that you can't donate to a museum ;)
You know me, a skeptic to the last ........... whilst the appearance of cut to clear is evident, particularly around the rim area, I'm having trouble seeing the effects of genuine cutting on this one. The pattern of the woman's dress shows intaglio work no doubt, but those areas in relief look unusual to me - almost cameo work possibly, and very flat looking - and the image is in many way simplistic. Do you think there has been some acid work on this piece?
-
Yes i would have thought so on the bigger areas, all the edges are razor sharp i did not think you could get that with acid?, could be cameo, i have not seen anything like it before, i'm much preferring my own museum at the mo that way i can pick the glass up.
Here is a close up of the base.
It's all too irregular if it had a pattern put on in wax it would be more uniform i would have thought?.
-
Chris showed me this vase yesterday and I would agree with cameo. In this case a combination of acid to remove the larger areas and cutting for the detail. I thought it fine quality work, the layer of red glass seemed quite deep in comparison to other cameo work I have handled, there is a wide and shallow polished pontil mark.
I too thought English a fair bet, from what I have seen it did not strike me as typically French or for that matter Bohemian, especially given the subject matter. Chris, do you have a copy of Hadjamach's 19thC British glass? Just thought it might be useful here.
Lovely vase!
John
-
The subject matter has been used on Bohemian, Russian and English glass I have seen.
I think also on French glass.
If the rim is fire-polished then together with the large pontil mark and perhaps stem and foot design, Bohemian would not be my first point of research. However that isn't to say it is not Bohemian. Loetz used fire-polished rims and polished pontil marks for example.
These designs were 'popular' at a certain period - look up Etruscan on the board and you will see some of the research I've done on my pieces.
Agree it is cameo. How it was done (i.e. by hand or using acid etching) I don't know.
Can you post a picture of all three scenes please.
m
-
This is a really great piece of glass! I do not have much more to add than the views expressed by John and "M" but I have also seen it in person. The delicacy of the work is impressive in person, incredibly deep and fine lines on the columns. I am not sure acid alone could achieve such precision. I tended towards Stourbridge as an origin somehow, partly due to the clear foot, though the threads on Etruscan style decors that "M" pioneered on GMB are worth re-reading for background to the decor used in various countries... a great piece from anywhere!
Robert (bOBA)
-
Thanks all a few more pictures.
Yes John, got both of charles books and could not see anything similar.
-
A side picture.
-
Note to the Moderators, please ................ I have a complaint.....
It has come to my notice that fifty percent of the respondents to this original post have seen 'in person' this item of glass - giving those individuals a vastly greater advantage regarding assessment, than the other two people. Thus, including the o.p., two thirds of interested parties here have handled this glass and not had to rely on seeing pix on the screen only - a clear majority have therefore been treated to a head start, and given preferential treatment. This sort of discrimination must cease - fairs fair and we must all start from the same position of ignorance - this sort of old boy's network is typical of today's 'clubby' attitude toward some of the older members who contribute, regularly, and on an unpaid basis.
Signed - an old boy.
;) ;) ;D
-
Paul, congratulations, you are this week's winner of Whinge of the Week. That's the best whinge I've read in quite a while.
;D ;D ;D :-*
-
In my defence Chris and Robert ambushed and threatened me with a glass swan and an iridescent mushroom. There were two of them and only one of me...
-
;D ;D
-
Libellous defamation indeed, John, the glass birds I saw were safely under domes, not being used as weapons!
In his post, Paul does have a point, one mentioned frequently on GMB, regarding handling-seeing a piece, versus a photo only. Photos alone are sometimes inadequate by comparison when assessing some glass items.
bOBA (Robert)
-
Could start the new club in my renovated shed Rob what do you think?. I do try and get the best pictures i can take honestly.
-
Veering off on a tangent here but the stem and foot and base finish and perhaps the rim,remind me of this Moser vase:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/156004-a-moser-karlsbad-oroplastic-amber-vase
Moser I think (? would need to be checked) did a red on clear cameo.
The way the design is etched somehow reminded me slightly of the oroplastic etchings.
m
-
Interesting Moser spot there M. I see what you mean about the foot shape similarity. It would be possibly an idea for Chris to send a pic to the Moser info if he wanted to and see if their historian would comment. I am not sure if they produced cranberry, cut to clear, cased and etched pieces (or not). I still think a Stourbridge search is equally worthwhile, possibly even a dig at the Himley archive and Dudley Archives, when time for anyone permits. Moser could surprise me and claim it as theirs... I think it is a lovely and interesting thing whoever made it! Hopefully the truth will out in the near future!
You photos do the job for glass discussions Chris. As for a club, I that an informal Stourbridge glass collecting club or circle would be possible, but you may need to extend the shed if popular, if more than you, I and Keith showed up! Sadly, I may be excluded from a club of new members here, as I think I registered less than a year after Paul (and John a few months after that I think). The GMB itself is a kind of club in any case, I am sure most would agree, united in an interest in glass.
Robert (bOBA)
-
Sent a picture to Moser and they replied "Unfortunately if your product is not signed, we are not able to verify if it is Moser or not. At this case we would kindly recommend you to contact any of renowned antic house".
-
well, as Groucho said ..."I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member" ;) - but seriously, sounds like a pleasant neighborly idea for people in that part of the world.
My humorous comments earlier weren't intended to rectify any situation that creates the occasional disadvantage for some folk - they were posted because it seemed to me that the circumstances of this particular post - at that particular juncture - were possibly unique. I don't recall another occasion when more people had seen the glass in question, than had not, so it struck me as remarkable.
But, it was a one off I'm sure, and not something to be taken seriously or requiring thought as to change.
I admit my share of the whinging - perhaps at newcomers in particular - who post poor pix, and find myself commenting often about busy backgrounds and pleasing shots of everything except the glass, but know we're flogging a dead horse expecting things to change. Mostly those people to whom this applies don't remain members and the few who do maybe get better at improving their pix - perhaps we all start that way and improve with time.
Perhaps there might be more emphasis on pointing out to newbies the importance of a good picture - but then again an accurate description is also very important - and most of those folk don't have the skill to provide such a description - which is why they're here in the first place.
This is a situation we have to live with, it seems.
Whilst in gripe mode ;D - I'd like to see more of the regular members joining in and offering opinions etc., but appreciate not everyone is retired with time on their hands.