Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on September 22, 2017, 03:20:53 PM
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When I bought this carafe I had that voice whispering in my ear, that wishful thinking fantasy sing song we are all familiar with, "Clichy" it said...
It is 18cm tall - a little over 7 inches with a wide shallow polished pontil mark, beautifully made it reeks of quality. After a bit of nosing around I decided Clichy really was but a fantasy.
Then I ran into this blog: http://www.peachridgeglass.com/2014/06/my-visit-to-the-sandwich-glass-museum/
which contains this photo of one of the display cases at the Sandwich Glass Museum: http://www.peachridgeglass.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Sandwich-11-a.jpg
So far this is the only example of filigree I have found which are white/colour/white so of course now my fantasy over the shoulder voice keeps whispering "Boston and Sandwich". All thoughts re the maker of the carafe are most welcome...
John
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Hello John I got one of these from eBay a couple of months ago in blue I thought the lip would have been where a glass would of sat , very similar to the American glass you found in the link, mine has a lot of base wear and a polished pontil.
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Me too, an up and over carafe or tumble up carafe with that wide ring for a glass to rest on.
Do you have a photo of yours Chris?
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I will put one on later it looks identical to the blue ones in the link.
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Pic's of the carafe and what i think maybe a French perfume about 1890 ish.
The carafe is 7 inches in height and the bottle 3 inches in height.
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Thanks Chris, two cropping up in relatively quick succession has me wondering...
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The one I have has had a hard life it was Waterstained and the base has a lot of wear (although 2 minutes on sandpaper could produce 200 years of foot wear), the only thing I have seen recently similar is a lot of Polish glass with similar single blue stripes no white normally large vases or jugs at least 12 inches in height.
I'm guessing if it were old it was not made in great numbers though.
Could just be coincidence I see a lot of Victorian glass over and over again.
I found a blue Victorian vase in Torquay earlier this month then found another the same when I was sorting through my own stuff and there is also one in Victorian decorative glass plus I have sold two over the years .
The cranberry sugar and creamer sets with white spiral rims are everywhere
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Glassobsessed - I can see as to why your initial thoughts were Clichy! However, it sure appears to be lovely piece. It also got me wondering (once I also looked at the blue example) if, at any point, either of them had stoppers? Just a guess, but if not, then perhaps they were produced as bud vases or just as decorative items?
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They are typically shaped bedside water carafes they do not have stoppers just a glass upside down that sits on the body .
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No evidence of any stopper, the shape of the neck would not be ideal and they are not ground for one to fit either. Interesting that yours has plenty of wear Chris, mine has some but it is confined to a thin ring around the edge of the base.
The shape would be practical for a carafe, the bulbous base making it harder to knock over that something taller.
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This is what I'm on about Turkish glass not Polish it's at a lot of fairs now.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/527343437599545164/
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Chris, sorry for being pedantic, but in your earlier post (Reply #6), you said:
... the only thing I have seen recently similar is a lot of Polish glass with similar single blue stripes no white ...
You specified "no white". However, the Turkish items in the Pinterest page do have white threads as well as blue.
A general point though, is that in the Turkish items the coloured and white threads are separated and are alternately blue / white, whereas in Clichy / Boston & Sandwhich examples, the threads are made as a single strip of colour edged with white on both sides. So, although there is a similarity at a distance, it's quite easy to separate the Turkish from the French / US.
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I said similar not exact, that's why i thought john was worried it was modern, i'm looking at thousands of pieces of glass a week, i can not remember everything or alter a thread on here after an hour.
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I have looked through the Clichy book and could not see similar canes although there are many pieces in the book.
I did find this.
https://procne.ihned.cz/c1-26460050-mecenasi-hrdinove-kteri-musi-prijit-do-mody
and this from the collection:
http://muzeum.sumava.net/wp-content/uploads/029.jpg
The cane formation looks to be the same at least as the first piece maybe?
The shape is similar to the second.
another piece with similar canes in the background here
http://muzeum.sumava.net/wp-content/uploads/038.jpg
I wonder if the carafes are Bohemian?
m
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I think the mezeum.sumava item (038.jpg) at the back of the picture has single threads of blue and red over a white base colour of the iitem. The colours, next to each other, are blue/white/red/white etc. rather than white/blue/white white/red/white. So I would discount it from the type under discussion.
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kev it looks clear,then white pink white cane, then clear to me?
No blue?
I'll take another look.
m
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In the Passauer Glasmuseum there are shown similar items:
Row 3 and 4: 'Gräfl. Schaffgotsch'sche Josephinenhütte' dated from 1842 to 1850
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Looks the same as those weird this is the shelf they are sat on.
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Just trying to find something else and i have found your op in Andy McConnells "The Decanter" page 229, he states "probably Clichy c1840"
Although the spirals are going the other way.
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There was nothing in the Clichy book.
I have a filigrana piece that I thought was Clichy - the pontil mark is a very tiny perfectly polished pontil mark. However iirc I now believe it is probably Saint-Louis.
m
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Sorry all, must have missed a notification somewhere down the line and I have missed many replies until today.
Spotted this bowl at the last Glass Fair, described as Clichy, matches the carafe very well, same base finish, quality and white/red/white canes. Something about the Josephine suggestion rings true for me for some reason, ticking more boxes than the others. The photos from Passauer museum are quite convincing, deja vu, been here before with B&S! :D
John
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I think, iirc, that pieces I have seen id'd as Clichy many times over are in fact Saint-Louis.
The Clichy book shows lots of filigrana pieces and none with this style.
Of course, no resource is finite however I would go against Clichy until there is proof.
I don't know if the pontil mark is right for Clichy either. I seem to remember a conversation about the pontil mark being very small and beautifully neat (Ivo?)
Certainly on the piece I have which is Saint-Louis it is also like that. Not a large polished pontil mark.
But then I'm feeling very contrary at the moment when it comes to something being id'd for many years as from a particular house ... and then finding there is no proof ;D
m
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Rebel ;)
That glass fair bowl was attributed to Clichy via old catalogues from one of the bigger auctions, I rest your case.
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;D I could be wrong though. Just advising caution (because you know I have a history of
not jumping to conclusions right? :-X )
The foot on both the carafe and the bowl are integral aren't they? not separately applied but both pieces hollow right down to, and including the foot?
i.e. the whole piece has been shaped from one piece, not with a separately applied foot?
m
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Yes you are quite correct m, no applied foot on either the bowl or carafe.