Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Jeffingtons on September 25, 2017, 03:57:14 PM
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Here's the second of today's charity shop finds. Again I'm thinking early Victorian? It's hollow stemmed and bigger bowled than the other glass. Would also like to know what this was likely to be used for? Wine, sherry, port?
It's also had the pontil ground out, but has no inclusions.
Sorry they aren't uploaded. Can't resize pictures on my phone
Thanks
https://flic.kr/p/YR4V3X
https://flic.kr/p/XPT7jT
https://flic.kr/p/YR4Trv
https://flic.kr/p/XLmuG9
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Dimensions helps. Nice air drop stem
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Never thought of dimensions. Height 5 inches, bowl at widest 2 1/4 inches
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hello - you may well be correct with your suggestion of date - would be interested in hearing your reasons for thinking early Victorian - might this be from seeing similar in books or perhaps some feature of the glass, or maybe someone else's thoughts. :) I'm always keen to learn from others how to judge the age of drinking glasses .............. sorry no one (apart from Christine) has yet offered any thoughts on your item.
Pieces such as this aren't easy to date - the depression under the foot is unreliable, so too is the slice cutting, and the inverted baluster stem is seen as far back as c. 1700. I'd suggest the bowl is a round funnel - possibly a wine or smallish goblet.
The problem with the Victorians is that they spent a long time copying earlier styles, which makes for difficulties in dating. If pushed I think my opinion would be that this is later in the C19 than you're suggesting, but glad to be proven wrong - let's see if we can entice others to offer their thoughts. :)
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Date is guesswork based mostly what I've read in books and on't t'internet. I think I should revise my guess to early/mid Victorian since doing more reading, but I don't have enough experience handling early glass. I know one thing for sure. It's the nicest glass I've ever drunk out of. It's exceptionally well balanced, with a lovely tactile feel to the touch. It's my new favourite drinking glass.
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you may be correct yet with your first suggestion, but you learn to be cautious when attributing dates. :) Unfortunately, the silence from the response is deafening - which is not unusual here, and shows that most other folk are either not interested in this period, or just being cautious, especially with run of the mill C19 drinking glasses. Having seen acres of these things, I've a feeling that the short answer is that there isn't an easy method of accurate dating for most Victorian pieces in general.
Most books tend not to treat this period seriously, so they terminate roughly with the demise of George IV - c. 1830 (the end of the Regency), but there was one book I've now parted with that was of some use in this area, and oddly it was inexpensive. John Brooks produced something called 'The Arthur Negus Guide to British Glass', and although it was a general overview only, did cover pieces similar to yours, and with some pix, but as usual it can't be accused of giving a great deal of space to such things. I think there was another by Tony Curtis 'Glass and Metalware' which gave some pages to Victorian drinking glasses, and again it wasn't expensive. These books are available on Abe Books.
In the end it's a matter of assessing every feature of the glass - colour, seeds, foot (possibly the most important part of a glass), bowl, stem, ping, cutting/engraving etc., and handling them at fairs/markets - without dropping them ;).
The term early glass should be reserved for C18, in my opinion.
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Unfortunately, the silence from the response is deafening - which is not unusual here, and shows that most other folk are either not interested in this period, or just being cautious, especially with run of the mill C19 drinking glasses.
Yes, I agree. That's about right.
The term early glass should be reserved for C18, in my opinion.
Hear hear. :)
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Just a little update on this. Having done much more reading and researching, a possible attribution is Richardson who seem to have made glasses with stems and bowls of this style throughout the mid Victorian period.
This was my favourite glass for drinking wine out of, until my wife had a moment at the kitchen sink and dropped a pestle on it, taking a big bite out of the rim. I still have it on display though as it is a fine thing
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Any chance of a picture now....despite the damage......I am unable to open the links in your original post without signing up to yet another site!
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Here it is now, with its bite. I do still use it occasionally. It's a beautifully balanced glass in the hand
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Oh dear......what a shame.....that is a very handsome glass! Thanks for posting the extra pics......I have some panel cut glasses appearing from the boxes, so will keep Richardson in mind to check out. Nothing as beautifully curvy as yours so far.
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My copy of Hadjamach's 1800-1914 arrived today and almost the first page it opened on gave me the attribution for this glass. Page 47, plate 32 page of wine glass designs from the Webb Richardson factory c1830s
There it is, top row in the middle.
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Bet you'll have hours of fun with that book. Hopefully there will be something in one of the boxes of mine that you'll be able to use it on as well 😹
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I'm interested in glasses/glass specifically from this period 1800-1850 ;) but mostly Bohemian/Russian/French interest.
I just haven't time at the mo to check in frequently .
The book is fantastic. Enjoy your read.
And well done for finding it in the book.
m
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You are in the glass topic that most interests me. In fact it is the only glass topic that gets my interest, Victorian and Georgian decanters and drinking glasses. I acquire any I come across and have a small collection, but regretfully I have no expertise in the subject, just a consuming interest, which I am trying to 'educate'. So, I am unable to add anything useful to Paul's invaluable and carefully considered comments on your glass, other than, if I had seen it I would have bought it without hesitation, and I would have categorised it as probably mid to late Victorian, rightly or wrongly. I don't have Paul's depth of knowledge and am unable to offer more than that.
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Here I have a pair, not too dissimilar to yours, so perhaps worth looking at. The stems enclose an air bubble(?). The bowls are cut with flute slices and there is a 'Greek key' decoration round the rim of the bowls. The pontils are polished.
I have never considered these to be anything but Edwardian.
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flattery will get you nowhere ;) It seems I was wrong on this occasion since I suggested a period later than it's apparently transpired.
Oddly I rarely use those images in Hajdamach - probably because I forget they're in the book - must make effort to try harder.
But I suppose had neither the op or anyone else seen that Richardson pattern book extract in Hajdamach, we might have gone on none the wiser, and continued to think it was later in the C19, although to be fair to Jeffingtons the correct 'early Victorian' date was suggested at the very beginning - perhaps the op is a genius.
Pontil depressions, everted rims and hollow stems are quite common in the Victorian period - perhaps it was Richardson who might have been the innovator of this appearance.
Shame about the damage - I'd ditch the oh and invest the money in more books ;) What the %/$*" was the glass doing sharing a sink with a heavy porcelain pestle? :o When washing such precious items, put a liner in the sink - something like quarter or half inch thick soft matting sort of thingy - plastizote is ideal.
Yes, CH's book is marvelous - we refer to it all the time here, but "Bet you'll have hours of fun with that book" - what is it that I'm not doing with my copy cat ;) ;) Are you saying you don't have a copy? :o
Anyway, all queries for early C19 clear drinking glasses now forwarded to the op for id. ;D
But, tell us why Edwardian in particular Laird - not criticism - just curious.
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I don't have an an attributable anchor for thinking they are Edwardian. They just seem to have had an awful lot of work put into their manufacture. Somehow, I associate a certain degree of 'clunkiness' and robustness to Victorian glasses (of course I may be well off the mark here), while these are quite delicate, something I more associate with the Edwardian era. The glass of the bowls is thin compared to my collection of definitely Victorian glasses. Two rows of fluting have been cut into the bowls, and surely with such delicate bowls that must have required considerable care. I think these are possibly from what was an expensive set of table glassware. Anyway, for 2 quid a glass, I thought I should have them.
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Laird, it would be good to see some more photos of your glasses, and more details about dimensions etc. The cutting on the stem looks quite fine. At two quid each I would have taken them home with me.
Paul, the OH wasn't supposed to be washing my wine glass. She meant well. She's not washed anymore since. I don't like to let go of the glasses through the entire cleanng and drying process. Can't knock them over if you don't put them down
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Height 4.5 inches
Bowl diameter 2.25 inches
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Very nice quality. I bet they feel good in the hand with a decent drop in them.
I've absorbed a lot of Paul's sensible caution when it comes to attributing dates, particularly using the internet as a source, but for the bowl shape-stem-foot combo on this, the majority seem to be down as 1860-90. Whether they're right or not is a question I'm unable to answer.