Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Carolyn Preston on August 04, 2006, 10:10:10 PM
-
Hi, I am very new to the board, having found it on a search looking for information on a piece of glass I recently purchased. Mother-in-law, who is of course an expert on everything thinks it is Monart, I'm included to say Ysart, but would love to know for sure. Cannot find a picture of its shape, closest I have found is an ashtray, but this is either the world's largest ashtray or is a bowl. Has the wavey (scalloped?) edge of an ashtray. Colour is pink with brown/purple swirls (like they were starting to play with the milleflore of the paperweights) and lots of the aventurine. No label of course. The bottom (Plinth?) is quite smooth. Okay, I know I'm hopeless, but... :D
What other pieces of information would you like? I don't have a digital camera, but could bum one if you really really wanted a picture.
-
Hi, yes I thought I might need to get a picture up. I will try to do so in the next little while. In the mean time, I thought I would try to do a more complete description. I have read the ysart glass website and it merely served to confuse me more (sorry Frank, but I am new at this).
Diameter: approximately 9 inches (23 cm)
Height: approximately 4 inches (10 cm)
It appears to be made of several layers of glass. The top one (inside of bowl) is clear, with the occasional (and rare) bit of dark pink glass. Directly below that is a pink layer, with adventurine and swirls (blotches?) of green, orange and purple (there are three largish ones and two much smaller ones). The adventurine is scattered throughout this layer. The majority of the pink bits in the clear glass layer are grouped like petals around one of these smaller blotches, but there are a few others as well. Below this layer is a layer of white and then a thick layer of clear glass. The first three layers are fluted with the last layer being fluted in opposition to the first fluting, but also are below the other flutes.
The bottom is absolutely flat. I would be absolutely convinced it is a Monart piece except for the fluting. This makes me think it might by Vysart, but I really more confused than anything. As I said, I will try to get some pictures up shortly.
Can anyone think of any questions that I might be able to answer? There is, of course, no label.
-
There are so many possibilities that fit the description that only pictures will tell. I agree is sounds more Strathean/ Vasart than Monart but the base finish sounds wrong. But this could just be you need to understand the terminology... so picture please and we can teach you a bit about that as well as ID the piece (maybe :? )
-
Okay, the pictures are up. The URL's are:
http://www.ysartglass.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-12
http://www.ysartglass.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-13
http://www.ysartglass.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-14
Let the debate begin :D
Carolyn
-
Hi Carolyn,
your piece is not Ysart glass :cry: , may be Italian but is not Ysart im afraid, im sure Frank will come back with its origin
Gary
-
yep as gary said, it's Italian
-
Best move it to the Murano forum then. It's quite a common shape. I have one here with bubbles over the silver. BTW that's not a crack, its colorant in the base. Be nice to know who made them and when. Click to enlarge
(http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0573.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0573.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0574.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0574.jpg)
-
Yes, the shapes of the two pieces are basically dead on. But what about the averturine? And the colorations with the canes? (And why are they called canes in the first place?)
I am a bit disappointed as I collect Scottish stuff (my husband was born in Glasgow and I am partiallly Scottish ancestry), but I still love my glass! :D
-
Christine, the two pieces are so similar, they must be the same age/ manufacturer. Can you tell me about your piece?
-
I know nothing about mine, except it was probably made on Murano, sorry
-
Moved to Murano as suggested.
-
Thanks Anne. Carolyn if you edit the title on your first post we may get more help
-
Carolyn raised a couple of interesting points:
... But what about the averturine? And the colorations with the canes? (And why are they called canes in the first place?)
For the point about aventurine and "colorations with the canes", in the context of Ysart glass (where this message originated) both of those elements were indeed used by the Ysarts. But it was not something that only the Ysarts did. Lots of makers in lots of countries used aventurine and millefiori canes in their products - not least of which were those folk on the island of Murano. The way that the aventurine and canes were used by the Ysarts is often visually very different from other makers but not always so.
As for why canes are called canes ... well it's the English version of the Italian "canna" - which on Murano basically means a rod of glass. The term can apply to simple rods or complex ones made up of bundles of other rods (millefiori canes). Also, "cane" is sometimes used when talking about the separately made stems for drinking glasses as, by definition, that it what it is, a length of glass "rod".
For simplicity, people use the term "cane" to mean millefiori canes such as used for decoration for vases, bowls, paperweights etc. But strictly speaking, they should be called "cane slices" as they are indeed slices cut from a single length of cane.
In the late 19th century, Murano makers began to use the term "murrine" when referring to cane slices.
[My info on the meaning of "canes" is based on Venetian Beads, Mosaic Glass and Murrine by Giovanni Sarpellon]
-
Lately I have seen 2 similar bowls, and both had the Fratelli Toso Castle labels. For years I havent seen any labels on these, except the generic scalloped red and green Venetian glass labels. I still dont think that all the bowls in this shape are by Fratelli Toso, but at least some are.
Javier
-
Thanks for the info. on the canes (very interesting) and on the possible maker. I've looked in several books and have not found anything vaguely similar in either the shape (apart from Christine's picture) or in the colouration.
I'm totally confused. :?
Now, I have redone the request for information, with a link to the pictures, but I have no idea how to change the title of this thread. If anyone knows, please feel free to do so or send me instructions :?:
-
Hi Javier, just visited your site (via a search for the Fratelli Toso bowls). Wow, I can only say "Got glass?" :) (Sorry, couldn't resist).
I have now come up with some specific questions about the colouration of my bowl.
1. In the pictures I have seen, the glass tends to be translucent, but I have at least two layers (pink and white) that are opaque.
2. Again, in the pictures I have seen, bubbles seem to be a major part of the design, either scattered throughout or in a specific pattern. I don't see any bubbles in mine (but there may be a couple in the top clear level)
3. Rather than have just one colour throughout the piece, I have a background of the deep pink, but also have some splotches of what look like be melted multicoloured canes. (See, I'm learning the lingo already :shock: )
4. Normally, the aventurine appears to be evenly spread, but in mine, I have dots of the aventurine.
I cannot find a picture of the colouration like mine (never mind in a bowl like mine) anywhere. My theory is that either it is (was) so common that nobody could be bothered to take a picture (dubious) or that it was so rare that there were none to take pictures of. :? You tell me.
-
Hello Carolyn,
I have seen a multitude of different color combinations, styles, and ways the different layers are applied, so dont be surprised that you havent seen the same bowl you have. The shape is very common, but yours is a little more unique than most with the large applied flower murrines.
Javier