Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: ardy on February 28, 2018, 05:09:14 AM
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I was given this as a present and it is a wonderful thing. It weighs 3.4kg and is 22cm wide (8.5") and 90mm high (3.5").
The work in it is perfect.
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Isn't this sfumato?
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Where do you find the sort of people that give you presents like this? ;)
The work looks a little like a more sophisticated version of the feathery effect produced by Konnstglas Ronneby in their medium sized birds. I'm not sure they would have managed this fabulous bowl and if they had, I'm sure we'd already know about it.
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Ardy, do you have good reason to think this belongs in the Murano / Italy forum?
As for "sfumato", I think that usually has "wispy sections" which create a bubble at various points of joining. But this bowl has what looks like precisely set bubbles ("bullicante") within lines of a mesh and with the mesh following the bubbles. On the other hand ???
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HI Christine, I can see what you mean but I have a few A.S. pieces with sfumato and it is normally a more encompassing effect than this one. I have no idea how they could have got that effect.
Sue, My partner bought it for my birthday a while ago. I think you might be onto something regarding K.R. had a good look but nothing in bowls, however, there were several with a similar mesh background. Are they still active?
Kevin - Not sure about anything to do with this bowl but Sue might have something. The bullicante seemed to make this the obvious starting point.
It is the precision of the manufacture and the perfect swirl of the base that has me amazed, then all set in sommerso.
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No idea as to the maker but couple of quick notes: Sfumato pieces are typically gray with twisted gray ropes. On occasion, you'll find Sfumato pieces in brown, but these are usually made elsewhere... Sweden comes to mind.
The bullicante can be achieved two ways; The formed hot glass is rolled over a spiked "tray" placed on the marver leaving indentations in the glass. The exterior is then covered in clear glass leaving the imprint of the bubbles suspended between the glass. A second way, and one that I believe was used on your piece, is blowing the glass into a spike-lined mold leaving the indentations which are covered in clear glass. This is a much more precise way of laying the bubbles being that the piece is completely blown into the mold, and there's no further blowing involved leaving the indentations in perfect alignment as they were in the mold.
It's a beautiful piece!
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Ardy, I'm delighted that your partner has such good taste and knows you so well that they can chose something so lovely for you. Hang onto them!
It there a deep ambery colour at the centre, or is that just an artifact of the light?
With a mention of Sweden, and if that colour is there, might it have something to do with John Orwar Lake and Ekenas?
It is strange that something so good is, so far, unknown to us. I'm starting to suspect it might be some unique special something.
It there were a fair number of them around, we'd have seen them before.
Is there any age-related wear anywhere around the base?
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Hi Sue - it has some scratches to the base but not enough so that you would claim it is 1950's piece. There again it might have always been a showpiece.
It has 3 imperfections inside the sommerso layer which I thought might have been from use as an ashtray but when I tried to clean it, it was obvious that they are inside the glass.
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BDG55 - thanks for the insight into bullicante manufacture, I did not know that.
Regarding sfumato, I have several Archmede Seguso pieces with this effect and they come in several colours, see attached.
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First of all, thanks for the nice comment in regards to the bullicante.
On your pic... I couldn't see enough to see the transitions in the color, but I believe you have a Seguso Polveri piece.
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Absence of age-related wear could simply be because of a careful owner.
I've stuck pads on the bottoms of new things to save them and signatures from me.
It doesn't mean anything if it's not there, it just helps if it is. :)
Is that rich deep ambery colour in the middle, really there or not?
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Hi Sue, Yes it is. I thought it was just a shadow effect but looking closer at it the inside is lined in a different colour. Being colour blind doesn't help!
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If you have trouble with reds, you're the same as my cat. ;D Cats only see in blue and yellow.
Do you know the pieces I'm referring to by John Orwar Lake? I've just had a search, their inner colour is often green though. Below is a link to one piece.
I didn't find anything with such complex bubbles with extras though.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/561892658/swedish-glass-bowl-designed-by-john
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BDG55, There has been a couple of discussions here regarding Sfumato v Polveri. My only take on this is that Polveri is dust and shows consistently across the work but it can have colour transitions in the work. Sfumato is more like smoke and the colour feathers into other colours in the work.
I have never seen this bowl of mine referred to as anything but Sfumato. See Leslie Pina - Archimede Seguso (a bit unreliable but just an example)
Still looking at the pieces regarded as Polveri I have, I find it hard to distinguish between them. This bowl does have a very different effect inside it to the bottom of it. The top breaks from a blue mottled, smoky effect feathering (sfumato) into a gold polveri. The base looks gold polveri all over. It is unusual and that is what attracted me to it.
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Hi Sue, I had a look at his work and like you didn't find anything similar apart from shape but his work is excellent. Glass is like that, the more you look the more you want, with some exceptions due to personal taste.
I do not like 'tissy' pieces with lots of add-ons. I am more clean lines, superb execution. 1940's and 50's seem to be my take in glass. I have a weakness for art deco furniture and Japanese art and bronzes.
How the hell did a rough working class boy end up like this ????
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BDG55, There has been a couple of discussions here regarding Sfumato v Polveri. My only take on this is that Polveri is dust and shows consistently across the work but it can have colour transitions in the work. Sfumato is more like smoke and the colour feathers into other colours in the work.
I have never seen this bowl of mine referred to as anything but Sfumato. See Leslie Pina - Archimede Seguso (a bit unreliable but just an example)
Still looking at the pieces regarded as Polveri I have, I find it hard to distinguish between them. This bowl does have a very different effect inside it to the bottom of it. The top breaks from a blue mottled, smoky effect feathering (sfumato) into a gold polveri. The base looks gold polveri all over. It is unusual and that is what attracted me to it.
Hey Ardy... There is much confusion about Sfumato as it relates to artwork and glass as the term has been used interchangeably with Polveri.
Leonardo Devinci developed, and was the most notable practitioner, of the painting technique, "Sfumato". He described it as, “without lines or borders, in the manner of smoke or beyond the picture plane.” He didn't actually use smoke but used the word as a description for the hazy, diffused, and smokey appearance that resulted from the use of the technique.
Polveri glass has a similar description but uses a different technique to the one Da Vinci used in his paintings: a gradual, defused appearance to the colors as they transition gradually into one another.
Sfumato glass is acheived by exposing the hot glass to carbon, ash and smoke which gives it its distinctive dark gray color. After the smoked portion is tooled into the desired shape, it's then cased in crystal glass.
As for the use of the term, "Sfumato" in Pina's, "Lace and Stone", she later, in her book, "Art Glass Century 20", corrected her use of the term, "Sfumato" and replaced it with "Polveri", which translates to "powder".
In her book, "Lace and Stone" page 69, Pina describes a particular pillow vase as Sfumato. However, in her later book, "Art Glass Century 20", page 71, she describes the exact same vase as Polveri, which better fits the technique of using powders to achieve the "Polveri" appearance.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. :)
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Thanks BDG55, will have a look as I think there are descriptions of glass techniques somewhere on my hard drive.
Not sure about how your description relates to Murano glass. Still, you could well be right and I had a look at some of the Barbini pieces nothing like mine but an outside possibility as a maker.
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I don't understand what you mean by it's description doesn't.... Maybe if you tell me what you referring to, I can explain it better.
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:) Ardy, your comment reminds me of a time I caught my OH gazing in awe at a large and striking lump of beautiful cased yellow and black glass in a posh gallery in Amsterdam, before he noticed I'd noticed him gazing.
When he did, he got flustered and growled; "I'm a man. I like curves."
Like you, he just likes what he likes and that's that. ;D
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BDG55, had a good look around the web and I can see where your descriptions are coming from. Did a translation of Sfumato and it came up with this one from Oxford dictionary:
Art
The technique of allowing tones and colours to shade gradually into one another, producing softened outlines or hazy forms.
Origin
Mid 19th century: Italian, literally ‘shaded off’, past participle of sfumare.
On this basis, it can be what you want it to be ie smoke; and what I want it to be, colours shading into one another.
In the case of my large bowl it is both sfumato, due to the colours blending into one another on top, and polveri on the base.
The bullicante bowl - I ain't sure of.
Where the hell is Svazzo when you need him?
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:) Ardy, your comment reminds me of a time I caught my OH gazing in awe at a large and striking lump of beautiful cased yellow and black glass in a posh gallery in Amsterdam, before he noticed I'd noticed him gazing.
When he did, he got flustered and growled; "I'm a man. I like curves."
Like you, he just likes what he likes and that's that. ;D
Sue - we men are nice and simple, whereas your sex are never set or predictable.
My partner goes through agonies picking colours. It takes me about 20 secs; although I can make a pig's ear out of a silk purse, still in classic male manner, I just repaint it! Better still, in the past, I have paid for a colour consultant and then used the scheme over and over.
If I see a piece of glass I like, that is it......assuming I can afford it.....
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I believe the confusion comes in due to the fact that if you do a search for Sfumato, as you did, all of the definitions pertain to art and not glass, so as a result, we're led to believe that the definition holds true for glass.
I've gone through five of my Murano reference books, but none provides the technique for Sfumato. The only information that comes up, time and again, is that the color is dark gray. Doing a Google for images... same thing, the majority of the pieces are gray. Now, you may find a few pieces that are "said" to be Sfumato, but outside of some Scandinavian pieces I've seen which are brown, but the others aren't according to the "Murano" defination of the word.
Found this online:
Fumato... It consists in a glass that, under a transparent colourless layer, contains inside it coloured corpuscles that, due to the diffraction of light, give the visual impression of "smoke". It is obtained as follows: during production, the surface of the item is exposed to the smoke of a wood fire; a certain quantity of greyish particles (unbrnt carbon and ash) adheres to the surface of the glass that is in turn vigorously marked with metal tools so as to form some grooves.
The entire surface is later coated again with another layer of molten glass.
This technique was presumably invented by Alfredo Barbini at the V.A.M.S.A. glass factories at the end of the 30s and was used to execute both vases and figures of birds. Some minor furnaces took this technique up again in the 80s, but for all intents and purposes, it's seldom used.
Mod: quoted text highlighted by quote box for clarity. Source of the quote is this page in the MuranoNet site (https://www.muranonet.com/glossary-fumato):
I don't know what reference books you have access to, but outside of Pinas first book, where she incorrectly assigned the term to Polveri glass - but later corrected it in her next book - I have been unable to find a Polveri piece identified as Sfumato.
What I think we're trying to do is fit Da Vinci's definition to glass, ignoring the fact that practically all of the Murano reference books that mention the technique, and photos found online, fit the description of dark "smoky" glass to a T. I hope this helps.
Glass, you gotta love it!
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I just found this thread. I love the Sfumato technique, and I have compiled a number of Sfumato pictures for you. I have close-ups so you can really see the end result in detail. Mostly smoke on black amethyst but also a few on glass in different colours.
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more pictures
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more pictures
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final set of pictures
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Lovely, thanks Ingela
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I like Ingela have quite a few FM Marcolin items. I am told that V Nason in Murano produced items very similar. I would suggest they are more likely to be makers.
Ross
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Reply #2 - Chopin_liszt:
” The work looks a little like a more sophisticated version of the feathery effect produced by Konnstglas Ronneby in their medium sized birds. I'm not sure they would have managed this fabulous bowl and if they had, I'm sure we'd already know about it.”
I can confirm that FM Konstglas/Marcolin in Sweden made vases, bowls, paperweights and abstract sculptures
From MuranoNet:
” This technique was presumably invented by Alfredo Barbini at the V.A.M.S.A. glass factories at the end of the 30s and was used to execute both vases and figures of birds. Some minor furnaces took this technique up again in the 80s, but for all intents and purposes, it's seldom used.”
”Some minor furnaces took this technique up again in the 80s”
If MuranoNet are saying ”in the 80’s” I take it that they refer to V. Nason and Formia.
I can add the following:
Marcolin used sfumato at Reijmyre in Sweden late 1950’s.
Marcolin used sfumato in Ronneby for 30 years, 1961-1991.
Marcolin continued to use sfumato after they moved their production from Ronneby.
I have some more pictures with the sfumato effect. I am totally fascinated with all the variations different glassworks can create. I just love it!
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Wow! You have some wonderful Sfumato pieces there Inca, I might have to try and find room for a few of those in my collections now...where will it all end! :o
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Oh, what fun! Two more items in my collection with the sfumato effect. This time two colours that I did not have before so I’m happy!
I have now given you examples of the sfumato effect from five (5) different glassworks.
I still miss a few examples of the sfumato effect in my collection. It would be nice to have something with the sfumato effect from Ernest Gordon, Kaj Franck and also Bengt Edenfalk.
Here are two more pictures for you to enjoy.