Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Helen W. on September 07, 2018, 05:39:54 PM
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Hello again lovely people
I managed to knock the seller down quite a bit on this one, but now that it's arrived, I'm doubting my decision to buy. This mould-blown vase with colourless casing carried a very hopeful attribution to Keith Murray. ::) I still thought it likely to be a pre-war English-made piece with interesting optical effects.
However, the colouring of the glass is all wrong. It's uneven, and there is a good deal of streaking between the oblong bubbles. The glass itself has a lot of fine bubbling and it doesn't appear to be good quality, though it's a heavy piece. It just doesn't 'feel' right. The optical effects are indeed interesting, so there's that...
Any ideas?
Pics below. You might just be able to make out a pale inclusion in the glass on the photo of the base, and the base has quite a bit of wear. My camera has developed a fault, so I won't be able provide any more pics just now.
Dimensions: weight 2575g; height 11.75" or 29.7cm; rim diameter 6.5" or 16.4cm; foot diameter 4.25" or 11cm.
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Nothing similar in my Murray design book, is that a polished pontil mark ?
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I didn't believe the KM attribution, so I negotiated a price much lower than the original. I just thought the vase was likely to be an interesting 1930s piece. On the other hand, I haven't found a comprehensive source of info on KM's glass designs. I've looked through Johnson/Perrot, Hadjamach, Dodsworth etc. I'd be interested to know whether there's a design book I'm missing.
There is an off-centre, irregular, slight circular depression on the base, which might be what remains of a pontil mark. I was trying to take a better photo of the base when my camera stopped working (suspect it is just out of guarantee).
Plenty of photos were provided before I bought from a certain auction site, but none showed the fact that the bubble pattern doesn't 'join' properly on part of the vase.
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Looks good quality, not sure how much you paid but if you expect perfect pieces expect to pay a premium. Look's like a graal or ariel technique or something similar
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It looks very ariel to me too - you can't expect that to be perfect, especially with some age to it. But I would strongly suspect Bohemian.
I wouldn't be bothered about Keith Murray or design books, I'd just be in awe of having something with ariel in it. I'd like to know the maker as well, but I'd really just be happy to have it. :)
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I've never seen graal or ariel pieces, except through the glass of a display cabinet, years ago. But I've handled enough English pre-war glass to know there is something 'off' about this vase, interesting though it is. The pigment has been applied unevenly, apparently at the time of moulding. The batch it was made from does not appear to have been coloured in the mass.
My camera seems to have got over its intermittent fault, so I've attached more photos.
By the way, I know I should pay a high price for premium glassware. I didn't diddle the seller; I knocked him down because I considered his Murray attribution, on which he was basing his price, to be extremely hopeful on his part.
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Sue, could you look at my reply above, posted while you left your comment, and the extra pics. Thanks.
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PS.
Sue, I've never heard of Czech ariel. Do you have any more info?
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Perhaps whoever is responsible for such things on the forum could remove this post. The last thing I want to do is to start a discussion which becomes contentious.
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No, I'm afraid not. There is still a ton of stuff we don't know anything about, the Czech factories were working full out and doing all sorts of interesting and experimental things, we still need to find out about.
They had financial resources, they could do lots of experimentation.
There are really complex pressed pieces we still cannot identify - moulds are expensive, complicated and difficult things to make, but they could afford to make them and sometimes not even end up using them much. ???
That's why I'm thinking Bohemian. If they were trying to mass produce something complex, such as ariel, it could easily come out as a bit "off" as you say.
I have had a large bucket in a very strange browny sort of amethyst shade, (all a bit varied in depth too!) engraved with dragonflies. It too, was in some way a little "off", but purely, I think, from the matter of mass producing something difficult or labour intensive.
The etching/cutting was unique, in being hand done, but done from master patterns. Mitre cuts here, a few rondels there, assemble into basic dragonfly shape. (I've seen pattern books that show how to assemble insects and foliage from certain cuts.) So anybody could have done them, it didn't have to be an artist.
This vase of yours is really, really reminding me of that bucket, which I ended up assuming to be Czech/Bohemian.
ps. I don't think you were being contentious, it's just the way the written word can come over, sometimes. :-*
The Glass Staircase doesn't know how much or how little you know and was only trying to help a newbie with some basics. :)
I can see where you're coming from with the price you and the seller both did agree on. A Keith Murray premium would not have been appropriate.
But it is a lovely and interesting thing to have.
pps. I've got some pics of my dragonfly bucket.
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Sue, thanks for the pics. What a beautiful design. :)
I have to admit I still have a lot to learn about Bohemian/Czech glass. And the concept of Bohemian ariel glass is something that would not have occurred to me, I'm sure.
I've just been prodding what I thought were the bubbles on the internal surface of the vase, only to find that the bumps are the spaces between them, not at all like a glass jug I own that has a standard controlled bubble design, where the bubbles are the bumps you feel on the inner surface. The bubbles/windows on the vase are concave on the inside, producing the lensing effect you can see in my photos. Whether that tells us anything else, I don't know.
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I've not seen or handled much Ariel. It's a bit beyond my price range.
What I think our vases have in common is that they're an attempt to produce Art Glass, but on a commercial scale- hence they're both rather lovely, but something is just not quite right. My dragonflies are not truly an orginal work of art on the surface, but slightly crudely cut and "assembled" from what I believe to be defined patterns of different cuts.
The only factories which really had the enormous facilities and resources to experiment with this sort of thing were the state-sponsored Bohemian ones.
I don't know how your vase was made, but looking at the bottom, it does appear to start out from controlled bubbles. And it is cased. ;D
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Could this be related....retailed by Crate and Barrell, produced in Thailand....
https://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?kw=273450750305&_odkw=search&_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m4084.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xs.TRS2&_nkw=273450750305
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My goodness, Greg, it's the same one. :o The colour looks slightly bluer than mine, but that could be down to the seller's camera. Everything else about it looks the same, even the nature of the uneven colouration in both bubbled and non-bubbled areas. The bubbles are very slightly different in shape.
I paid much more than the asking price here (allowing for conversion). I've never heard of Crate and Barrel. You must have done an extensive image search, because none of my search terms brought up this one. Thank you very much - it would appear to resolve the question of attribution!
Sue, what do you think? Thai ariel glass?!
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Here's another reference:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crate-and-Barrel-vase-Iris-Thailand-purple-bubble-glass-Mothers-Day-12-/332644835616
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The link I posted late last night is not working this morning. The vase in the link resembled mine even more closely than Greg's example, the bubble shape being the same.
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Another photo of part of the vase, showing a section towards the rim to illustrate the bubbled nature of the body of the glass.
I hope the image makes sense; I had to crop severely to fit within the forum size limit.
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I really think Greg has solved it. :)
Contemporary makers in the far east (from us) are getting better and better at glassmaking and are starting to make such sophisticated things now.
I wasn't able to handle it, to get a feel of the metal used, I wasn't able to ascertain age-related wear. I think the wear on the base of the vase I showed is ok.
The one Greg found might cost less than you paid Helen, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. You were curious and took a bit of a risk. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.
It's still a lovely vase. You could use it as a wastepaper bin if you wanted, it's about the right sort of size, without having to worry too much about it. I've got loads of lovely bits of not terribly valuable glass as wastepaper bins all over the house. ;D
One of my lovliest pieces of jewellery is a contemporary thing in glass and silver, from Thailand. Michael doesn't like me wearing it when we're out, because it attracts so much attention folk stop me to ask about it and he gets fed up waiting. 8)
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;D I had another go at cleaning off the grime, and that just seemed to reveal more horrors in terms of quality. But as you say, it's an adventurous piece of glassmaking so it may as well serve a useful purpose! The living room lacks a waste paper basket...
I thought about getting in touch with Crate & Barrel to ask which company supplied it, as there seem to be quite a few glassmaking firms in Thailand. But even if they felt inclined to reply, they would probably cite commercial confidentiality.
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I think the bottom line was that you liked it.
That's always the best place to start.
If it ends up on the floor as a lovely wastepaper basket, it will still enhance your life.
And you've learned something; so have I.
If it doesn't fit in your living room, it's a good, tall, narrow shape for a bathroom corner. ;D