Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: LEGSY on December 21, 2018, 01:18:31 PM
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Purchased a job lot from an auction house and have found a couple of things i no knowledge of maybe somebody knows what they are and from when if possible.
It has a hollow stem and measure's 13.5 cm tall quite a lot of wear to the outside of the foot. ???
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In french these are called 'lampe de dentellière' which translates as lace lamp, but I don't know if that is the usual name for these items in English.
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It's the same, Anne. :)
I just wasn't sure it is one, given the ball part is hollow. Would a hollow ball still magnify the light from a candle?
There were normally 4, placed around a flame, were there not?
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Funny what we've come across and what we know … I've never heard if solid ones, just the ones like this one here, they are supposed to be filled up with water and stand in front of a candle. Because of the round shape the light is directed downwards, on the table and hands of the lace maker. I'm not familiar with a 4 balled one.
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Filling it with water makes a lot of sense.
It's no wonder I hadn't thought of that! :-[
I'm sure I've seen an illustration of 4 around a candle on a table, though.
We take electric lighting 24/7 for granted these days, and forget how difficult (and expensive) light used to be. :)
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I guess that at the time, a hollow one would have been much more affordable as well.
Reading up on these lamps, there are also the ones that contain a wick and are supposed to be filled up with oil. Often these ones are called lace lamps too but apparently they're not. In french they're called 'Lampes Provençales'. I'm not sure if this refers to the department of the Provence or if it could be translated as countryside, a simple lamp that was often used in a modest household out of the city.
On a blog i read that the four balled lamp used to be placed in the middle of a round table and would allow 4 people to work at the same time.
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Oil lamps are well-known and still made, in lots of different styles and materials now.
The first one I heard of belonged to some chap called Aladdin, in a fairy story. ;D
I'd imagine Provençale refers to countryside rather than the region of France, given how widespread they are.
Hollow balls would be a lot cheaper to make, as you say, and probably not suffer from damage so much.
If they were very top-heavy, they'd fall over easily.
Lace makers did not earn much. :'(
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:)Really interesting reading i was wondering if this example of lamp would be classed as lamp work sorry to confuse the situation slightly, Only i did wonder to its authenticity as it is so lightly blown and i would have thought very easy to break not really ideal for manual working. Although saying that the base has a good ring of wear and the top by the aperture has what looks like residue of some sort maybe from filling or similar. Never seen one before so slightly flumoxed . Thanks for replying. :)
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Hi ,
Open flame oil lamp is the generally accepted description for these items , they would have had metal fittings and a wick for each aperture, the items that were filled with water are reflecting globes and were much larger, they may or may not have been used by lacemakers as often referred to but their primary function was simply to provide light in the home , those with handles of course could easily be moved from room to room as needed.attached are some 18th c examples and a reflecting globe.
Cheers
Peter
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:) Thanks for your excellent, experienced input Peter, and for showing that lovely array of pieces.
It's all bringing to mind a "new" way of lighting somewhere up, recently "invented" for places without electricity I read about. It's very simple and clever.
They put a (recycled) plastic bottle of water in a hole in the ceiling, with the rim/top poking outside.
Sunlight enters the bottle of water and gets refracted around in the body of water, ligthing the room up. :)
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Thank you Peter for clearing that up. I've never had one and it's not on my list either, so never done any research but I've always known them, the ones without wick, as lace lamps as have so many people. Obviously a common mistake. Reading up on it I can see the difference.
After your post I wondered where the attribution lace lamp comes from for these smaller pieces.
I came across another french blog where, agreeing with your theory, they also mentioned that as 'lace lamp', these pieces sell for a lot more, it's as simple as that and I can remember seeing one go on Ebay this year for something around €250, which I didn't understand at the time.
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Hi Anne, I don't know were or when the attribution to lace makers lamps originated,possibly in some book or other a very long time ago and since then has been regurgitated without question, it is not impossible that lace makers used lamps such as these with reflection globes used to shine the light onto the lace making pillows but I know of no hard evidence,many open flame lamps were made in Europe as well as England and there is a thought that French glass makers from Lorraine may have introduced them to England in the late 17th century,maybe at that time the connection to France and lace making led to the attribution or possibly it was the Victorians who loved to put "labels" on everything which is were so many attributions of what many 18th c drinking glasses were made for originated, ie ratafia glasses glasses, mead glasses etc , with no historical evidence to support the "labels", so it's more than likely it is just another "old wifes tale " that has stuck and even today is repeated without question , why a lace maker ticket would attract a higher price i don't know as most knowledgeable buyers today are aware of this erroneous description though 250 eu would not be a lot for a nice example,from memory the highest price paid at auction for a six spout English lamp was £10,000 , some are very rare !!! below is a late 17th c French lamp.
cheers,
Peter.
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It was just a plain, single one, nothing fancy and as far as I can remember, nothing specifically mentioned about age or whatever. Just the attribution lace lamp, in French, with measurements, a model similar to the one in this thread. Seeing it go for such an amount of money made me wonder why such a simple thing could sell for so much money. Obviously something was there that I was unable to see but you need to be in a specific collectors market to understand it, I guess.
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Hi,
A quick search found this , the most accurate description I have seen so far,
https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs/lb_lamps.pdf
cheers
Peter.