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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Max on August 13, 2006, 09:32:13 PM

Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Max on August 13, 2006, 09:32:13 PM
I'm still reading Andy McConnell's fab book, 20th Century Glass (ISBN 1 84533 0994) and stumbled across an interesting piece of information.

There's a photo of a Bagley 'Wild Oak' handkerchief vase in flint, designed by Bagley.  However, the piece goes on to say that the moulds for that particular vase were transferred to Rockware who produced it for a short while.  The salient point is that the base is impressed with a large Tudor rose motif.

I thought Rockware only produced bottles, but I've dropped them an email checking that they produced utility glassware in the past with the Tudor rose impression - maybe I've got the wrong Rockware, could they have added the motif?   :?   It'd clear up a couple of queries on here if they confirm.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 13, 2006, 10:11:05 PM
Hmm, never heard of that one. It's not in the Bagley book as far as I can see.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Max on August 13, 2006, 10:18:20 PM
It's a new one on me too Christine...perhaps it was very short-lived production?  It looks almost Scandi in appearance, textured, icy/barky, and thick walled.

Edit:  I've changed the title of this thread.  I wonder if Angela can help?
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Anne on August 14, 2006, 02:44:51 AM
Why not ask Andy himself about it? Perhaps he can expand on this some more for us on the board?
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Max on August 14, 2006, 07:23:30 AM
Anne, maybe I'll give him a ring today.  I feel a little awkward about phoning someone I don't know very well and asking them a question about their book.  I'm probably being silly.   :oops:

On another note, he has a huge piece of glass he'd like identified and I said why not put it on the GMB?  I think he's too busy though, so he's sending me some pics when he's got the photo's done.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 14, 2006, 08:05:06 AM
:D :D :D
Still waiting for my copy of the book - it's ordered.

I've got one of these icy, barky vases with a Tudor rose on the base. It's not a pontil mark, I think it's pressed, but I can't find any seams. The base has been ground and polished flat where the glass meets the surface it sits on, in the way that pressed glass often is. My real reservations about the piece are to do with the colour of the glass. It's very yellow - not a good colour.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Max on August 14, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
It's good you have a piece readily available Sue, odd colour though...maybe it got contaminated somehow?  

I spoke to Andy, his feeling is that the impressed Tudor rose is original from the Bagley moulds, as he couldn't see any reason that Rockware would have added it.

Andy was in communication with Pontefract Museum and obtained an advert from The Pottery Gazette showing the 'Wild Oak' hankerchief vase by Bagley.  From Betty Parsons, he received the information that Rockware took over the Bagley moulds in 1975 when Bagley stopped making fancy glass.

So, I presume that the Tudor Rose is a Bagley motif?  Perhaps Angela might be able to confirm that.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Frank on August 14, 2006, 11:11:22 AM
Note from Andy

Quote from: "Andy McConnell"
The Handkerchief vase illustrated in the Bagley section of my book, 20th Century Glass, just published by Miller’s, is from Bagley’s Wild Rose series [also called the ‘Wild Oak’ in certain advertisements]. The range extended through several shapes, including  a tankard and an ashtray...and the Hankie vase. All the pieces from the range were deeply impressed with a distinctive ‘White Rose’ logo.

The range was apparently produced by Bagley for John Artis Ltd, of PO Box 25, Barn Hatch, Masssetts Road, Horely, Surrey, RH6 7DP. Tel: 02934 2420 & 6690 [address as advertised in 1976 & ‘77].

Artis illustrated an ashtray from the series [‘Recommended Retail Price £1.99’] in Tableware International in February 1976 [page 48]. The tankard was illustrated in the November/December, 1976, issue of the same journal. In both cases the bold White Rose motif was illustrated boldly. The tankard was described at that time as: ‘An exciting addition to the range of White Rose Hand-finished English glass in Gift Packs’.The ad for the ashtray stated: ‘Wild Oak Ashtray...from the exciting range of more than twenty Gift Boxed items of White Rose Hand-finished English Glass...’

I think that it may be deduced that Bagley made the range exclusively for Artis, which switched production from Bagley after it ceased to make pressed fancy glass in 1976. I seem to recall that it was Derek & Betty Parsons who told me that Rockware took it over for a short period after 1976.
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Leni on August 14, 2006, 11:32:24 AM
Would it be possible to see a picture of the Tudor rose mark, please?  Only I've got a little clear pressed glass something (candle holder?) which I had always assumed was Scandi, and it has an impressed Tudor rose on the bottom    :shock:

Here's mine: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10048/normal_Tudor_Rose_candle_holder.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10048/normal_Tudor_Rose_candle_holder_base.jpg
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 14, 2006, 12:10:16 PM
The "produced for John Artis" may explain why no mention in the Bagley book.

Leni, your thingy certainly sounds like the vase in question :D
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 14, 2006, 12:37:19 PM
:D :D :D
That's exactly what the mark on mine looks like, Leni.
5 petals, with a bit sticking out inbetween each petal, and a centre circle that goes in, with a rough texture. The flat bits that would sit on the table are ground to be flat. How's the colour of your glass? Mine is definitely yellowish. It does not look in any way Scandanavian, with this tinge!
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Leni on August 14, 2006, 01:02:49 PM
It's not too bad.  I wouldn't describe it as 'yellowish', although perhaps it's not quite as clear as my Scandi votive holders!  

I should of course have also mentioned that it's only about 2" high!   :oops:   :roll:
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Max on August 14, 2006, 01:44:46 PM
Thanks Frank  :D  :D

Here's a link to one of the Tudor rose style pieces, with Pip showing her motif.  It's in the first posting:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5724.0.html

Hers has a dubious Tapio signature...
Title: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Pip on August 14, 2006, 04:51:07 PM
Well spotted Max!  I bought this book just a couple of days ago and hadn't reached that section yet.  So what is this mark (bit confused) Bagleys or Rockware?
Title: Re: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: shugdens on January 02, 2011, 09:41:32 PM
Thanks to max for the link, i got a vase on a car boot a few months ago. I wouldnt say it was yellow though there is a very slight yellow tint when viewed from a certain angle.

I have started buying intresting glass pieces just for the sake of this site recently. :hiclp:

I sold an Orlik signed ash tray on ebay the other week & the buyer had put the info on this site si I started using it  :thup:

I am a dealer but love glass & have some very unusual pieces waiting idenification, Bohemian glass is getting me confused at the moment. I got 15 pieces of it described as murano just before Xmas.
Title: Re: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: Chris Harrison on January 02, 2011, 11:43:01 PM
I think the Tudor rose comes either from the period (1962-68) after Bagley's was taken over by the Jackson Group, or a bit later under Rockware..  For a while, glass was made under the White Rose Crystal trade name.  Not much was produced in the way of new designs, but some of these vases were produced with the rose-impressed base before Rockware eventually turned the factory back to bottle-making.  Don't remember any mention of Artis, but that doesn't mean it ain't so.

Now if I can only remember where I got that info.  My first thought is that I was told it in an exchange of emails with some descendants of the Bagley's founders when I sold them some old Bagley pieces a few years ago...  Will try and find it, but I think it got lost when my external HD crashed.  
Title: Re: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: shugdens on January 03, 2011, 12:00:53 AM
This is my vase, I think it will be sold this week probbly on Ebay as I've grown low on stock due to the seasonal holidays.
I did want to keep it a while. :-\

Ahh well I've got some intresting bohemian pieces to keep me happy insted. I'll show them off soon  :-[

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/WhiteRose1649/DSC00156.jpg)
Title: Re: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: David E on January 03, 2011, 09:10:52 AM
I sold an Orlik signed ash tray on ebay the other week & the buyer had put the info on this site si I started using it  :thup:

Glad my information was of help - and thanks for the ashtray, which was received fine. Hope you find GMB of use and interest - it is an open community and all are welcome!
Title: Re: Bagley? Impressed Tudor Rose motif
Post by: shugdens on January 04, 2011, 08:07:31 PM
Glad my information was of help - and thanks for the ashtray, which was received fine. Hope you find GMB of use and interest - it is an open community and all are welcome!
Glad you like the piece, are those ash trays by Chance? I doubt I'll come across another.