Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: mhgcgolfclub on April 24, 2019, 06:51:38 PM
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Almost certainly a rare Thomas Webb satin glass vase for show.
White cased inner glass.
Described in one book as a shallow cameo glass effect.
Height just under 6"
Weight 646gm
Roy
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Lovely. looks like a graal effect
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is it an airtrap method?
It does look like graal doesn't it?
Very beautiful and great colour.
m
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Thank you.
There is a similar type of vase in Cyril Manley's book Decorative Victorian Glass number 77 page 62
The same vase in blue is also shown on page 155 of Mervyn Gulliver Victorian Decorative Glass described as rare and an air trap pattern.
Fieldings Auctions sold a similar vase with added gilding in 2017 http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/156907
Thanks Roy
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Sorry, so is this 'almost certainly' Thomas Webb?
Or is it 'possibly' Thomas Webb as per the Fieldings link?
Gulliver shows the same or similar shape with trefoil rim and a similar but different airtrap pattern design but in a different colour (looks teal over white, that he described as pale blue over opal white) and does not mention Thomas Webb at all. I wouldn't use Manley as a reference. Sorry.
Thanks
m
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Do you know it's Webb or are you just relying on Manley and a possibly by Fieldings?
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ooh Christine :) you and me both.
btw I have a criss cross airtrap somewhere and it could never be described as shallow cameo.
I think the thread title needs amending unless this can be pattern booked as a 'Thomas Webb' because it could be misleading.
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There are 13 satin airtrap vases in Gulliver and none of them have been identified as Thomas Webb.
(There is a pretty one with Coralene beads on it )
m
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OK my fault I should of used the word possibly at the start of the title.
Roy
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I'm really curious about these. Particularly those that are a bit more ornate such as yours and the one sold by Fieldings. They remind me of Loetz Octopus vases - I've always thought the Octopus vases were some form of airtrap but never having owned one I've not really looked into that observation. However, your vase immediately brought to mind my Octopus vases interest. I've just had a quick google and found a fascinating article by Galle all about the Loetz Octopus vases and their patented method of making here:
https://www.loetz.com/featured-articles/loetz-octopus-victoria-and-the-english-connection
So, the information in Galle's article is extremely interesting. I'm very curious to know whether your vase and the Fieldings one are English? or maybe they aren't? Could they be Bohemian maybe?
What I like about them is that they are very 'freeform' design of airtrap as opposed to, say, the airtrap criss cross, lined and dot vases , which seem to me to be uniformly patterned across the body of the vase.
I'm just idly wondering about Harrach if I'm honest.
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Thanks m for the link.
I had seen the vase at the Ardingly fair on my 2 previous trips and doing a little research at home without my books Loetz Octopus was the nearest match I found, but they all seemed to be gilded.
I went back to Ardingly last week with the intention of buying the vase if it was still there which it was. So there had not been much interest in it until I bought it.
Fieldings have sold 3 or 4 Octopus vases.
http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/121061
My gut feeling is my vase is English and it does have that satin glass feel.
Roy
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Hi Roy
I've not time at the moment to look but does Hajdamach say anything about these in either book? is there any pattern id in the back of one of his books under Thomas Webb at all?
Really curious - also was it you who mentioned that Fieldings had bought all the STevens and Williams pattern books? Is that true? I thought they were in the archives at Dudley but being borrowed by someone for research.
m
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Hajdamach British Glass 1800-1914 page 308-10 has some on air trap ,but not on my vase.
I am pretty sure Fieldings told me that they had the pattern books to find out the pattern number of the 6 Steven and Williams intaglio cut wine of mine which they did. I need to speak to Fielding this week I will double check.
Roy
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oh thanks Roy. I just like to know the whereabouts of the pattern books :)
m
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I have been told this week that the vase is Harrach and called the Rose pattern. This is a new update on the vase which had been attributed to Thomas Webb before this recent update.
As far as I have been told there is a reference for the vase at Harrach.
Roy
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:)
Thanks for letting us know the update.
I've just had a quick look through the Harrach book and couldn't see anything similar in there.
Did the identification come from Harrach? (They were extremely helpful with a pattern reference for an unusual piece I sent photos of a few years ago).
I think it is Harrach btw, just wondering where the id came from.
m
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Rather than move this thread now, I have tweaked the title and await any further news on the Harrach Id source info.
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I will check to see if the person who ID the vase as Harrach is happy to be named as it would be polite to check first. I was told he has heavily researched this pattern and found a reference for Harrach.
Just googled Harrach satin glass rose pattern and the same vase in blue came up on Pinterest described as Harrach satin glass rose and acorn pattern .