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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Beege on May 02, 2019, 06:03:34 PM

Title: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 02, 2019, 06:03:34 PM
Good evening all.
I have a set of 8 Hock Glasses which I believe to be antiques.
Light brown/gold with a decorative stem of hollow sections. The pontil is rough/sharp. Just over 6" (15.5cm) tall.
I'm aware Powell/Whitefriars produced such glasses in the late 1800s, early 1900s as a response to demand and that these were based upon German originals.
Can anyone please identify (maker/date) the glass in the images?
Thank you for tour help.
Jack.
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 03, 2019, 08:49:46 PM
I'd be more inclined to seach Theresienthal roemers first maybe?

I don't know if the colour and shape are correct for Theresienthal as I've not had a good look but I'd look there first.
If you search on this site, then a link to Theresienthal pages of research by Stephan should come up I think.

m
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 03, 2019, 08:50:44 PM
ah,this might be link:
There is one on there with a very similar stem, knops and merese etc
but you will have to search all through the site links to see the various glasses and shapes - I've not time to do a full search for you.

http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/index2.html
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 03, 2019, 09:35:42 PM
Many thanks M, much appreciated.
I'll have a look...
Jack
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 03, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
In fact, yes I'd say that is a remarkably similar stem in terms of formation and design.
I'd say Theresienthal is very likely.  Hope you find a match on there - it takes a good while of searching :) but it's a fabulous site.

m
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 03, 2019, 10:04:17 PM
I think I may have found it already M...

The text says "Romans, after a design by Schinkel, colorless glass lustrated, around 1890 19.6 cm high, diameter of the Kuppa 6.5 cm, Kuppa with Weinlaubgravur; three Rosettenuppen on cylindrical central part, which is delimited by a wavy band down, articulated Hohlbalusterschaft with four disc modes; Scheibenfuß;"

This make sense?

and the image is as follows...
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 03, 2019, 11:07:07 PM
It does. However the bowl on that looks slightly shorter than the bowl on yours and the merese on yours look to be slightly 'thicker' less refined/slim.
But without seeing yours side on, properly side on, it's difficult to compare.
Can we see a side on of yours? 

I'm just wondering if yours might be slightly later or something.

Is yours lustred btw?
I think yours must be Theresienthal, I just wonder if it's a more recent (than the one shown there) edition, if they did repeat designs over the years.

m
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 04, 2019, 10:14:46 AM
Good morning M
I can see what you mean with regards to possibly being less refined.
The glass is clear, so I suspect this means it is not lustred.
I have attached another image to help clarify the size/shape bowl. I also recognise that my glasses are just over 15.5cm tall and therefore shorter than the example I have posted. Whether this means it is earlier or later to the example is possibly the question to try and fathom and maybe I need to keep searching the catalogue.
Jack

Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 04, 2019, 11:02:47 AM
Right, thanks.  There are differences: the bowl shape; the bottom part of the stem above the merese joining the stem to the foot; but basically that is the same design of glass and a very similar colour.  I think it's Theresienthal but just a different shape glass.

Others do come up with that bowl shape.

So, it might be worth doing some research on the site to find one with a similar bowl shape.  Always worth doing research because it throws up some amazing information useful for memorising for future purchases. 
If you do find one bingo.  If not I would, after some research, contact Stephan to see if he will verify it for you.
m

Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 04, 2019, 01:52:51 PM
Many thanks for all your help m, you are much appreciated.
I will take your advice and research deeper.
Regards
Jack
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 09, 2019, 07:02:11 AM
Hi m (flying free).
I've done a fair amount of searching (via the internet) and have yet to make a match of my Theresienthal roemers.
Do you have a route by which I may ask Stephan to provide an opinion? I tried the information address (info@roemer-aus-theresienthal.de) on the website you provided but was unable to solicit a response.
Many thank
Jack
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 09, 2019, 09:16:26 PM
No, I'm sorry.  All you can do is keep searching and hope Stephan replies.
There is another one here, again a slightly taller one but only by 5mm than yours but much shorter than the one you show from the Theresienthal site and the bowl shape is remarkably similar to your glass.  Again the same stem design:

https://antikes-glas.de/en/theresienthal/theresienthaler-romans-with-articulated-shaft-schinkel-around-1890-p-2196.html
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 09, 2019, 09:32:27 PM
see my post above please and also to add, there are four here on the site, all different sizes and slightly different proportions on the stem but the stem is the same design and has all the same elements making up the complete stem as yours does:

http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/historismusschinkel.html

From what I can deduce the design dates to c.1890 and was designed by Schinkel.  The original pattern sheet is shown on that page showing the handrawn design.
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 10, 2019, 09:54:58 AM
Hi m.
Thank you so much for taking the trouble, those site are most interesting and I will indeed continue my quest.
Whilst, with your help, I am quite confident about the Theresienthal/Schinkel nature of my glasses, it would be nice to establish when in the production of this design they were created.
Again, my thanks for your knowledge and assistance.
Jack.
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Theresienthaler Romans?
Post by: Beege on May 16, 2019, 06:47:10 AM
Hi m (flying free), just an update after you have taken such trouble to assist me...

Stephan has responded to my enquiry and states "In my view, the Roman does not come from Theresienthal, although [it] looks similar, [it] does not resemble the Kuppa [on] the Theresienthaler Romans."

This is interesting as the link you kindly provided (https://antikes-glas.de/en/theresienthal/theresienthaler-romans-with-articulated-shaft-schinkel-around-1890-p-2196.html) perfectly reflects the same shape 'kuppa' as on my glasses (I'm assuming cuppa refers to the bowl of the glass).

So...contrary to my last post and my Theresienthal confidence, the mystery continues.
Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: flying free on May 16, 2019, 07:19:26 AM
ah ...hmmm ... back to the drawing board then for now.
No comment from Stephan on the colour not being right, so the stem, the colour seem to be ok for Theresienthal but it hangs on the bowl shape not being one of their shapes.  So if it is not Theresienthal, then we are looking for a maker that did remarkably similar stem shapes to the Schinkel design but with a bowl shape like yours.  That could be hard to pin down!

So, another place to look might be on Pressglas Korrespondenz where iirc they have done some research on possible Theresienthal glasses.

I don't have time at the moment but if I remember and I do get time I will try and look up any research they might have had.

Title: Re: Set of Hock Glasses - Powell/Whitefriars?
Post by: Beege on May 17, 2019, 07:37:24 AM
Good morning m.

No other comments from Stephan other than the sentence I copied below; so presumably (as you say) the colour is not an issue.

I'm quite surprised how difficult it is to identify such a striking design. I must assume the design was very popular and either copied by others, or copied by Theresienthal.

Thank you for the Pressglas Korrespondenz connection: I have visited their website. Being a German site and me being multi-lingually challenged, I have had to rely upon the Google translator, which sometimes make it difficult to follow the dialogue. Nonetheless, I have found contact details and will try and solicit some information. I'll let you know what happens.

Regards
Jack