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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: keith on May 25, 2019, 05:43:53 PM

Title: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 25, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
First of all it's not mine it's Linda's, date stamped for Edinburgh, 1976 and if I've read to Caithness site info' correctly possibly by Peter Holmes  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: catshome on May 25, 2019, 07:23:47 PM
Glass AND jewellery........ Heavenly!
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 25, 2019, 11:03:22 PM
That's what Linda thinks  ;D ;D ;D ;D means I'm in her good books !  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 26, 2019, 10:28:31 AM
 ;D
That IS a goodie.
In the mid-'70s, in Edinburgh, there was a considerable fashion for unique, designer pieces of large jewellery, this ring is absolutely in keeping with that style - which is now, obviously, desirable and collectable. There were exclusive designer jewellery shops, with their own stables of artists who worked for them. Many were well known enough, even then, to have their own hallmarks.
Their work commands high prices now.
This ring fits into that style perfectly. Bold and chunky, even if it is very simple. And of course, it's Edinburgh, '70s and has the artist's initials in the hallmark.  8) 8) 8)
So it's very special, for the silverwork as much as for the glass - if not more so.
It's completely fabulous.  ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 26, 2019, 01:05:55 PM
Thanks Sue  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: KevinH on May 29, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
Keith, any chance of some more photos showing: a) the fulll ring and its shape(s) and b) the hallmark details - if you can do it.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 29, 2019, 10:53:01 PM
Will get on that tomorrow, the hallmarks are quite small but I'll try  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 31, 2019, 12:19:33 PM
Having a real problem with the hallmarks, will ask my son to have a go  ::) ::) ;D ;D are these ok ?
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2019, 12:29:22 PM
All nicely sculpted into a wearable and elegant shape. The band is flat at the front, but thicker and squarer at the back. It will be comfortable to wear and not get worn out.  :)

I did look up CJ on Edinburgh silver hallmarks. It stands for Caithness Jewellery. Not helping us with the name of the silversmith.  :(

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Edinburgh-C.html#CJ
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 31, 2019, 02:31:24 PM
Thanks Sue, just tried again to get a good shot of the marks, failed miserably  ::) I'll ask Will to have a try later  ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
I'm sure somebody here used to manage to take pics of teensy things by putting a loup inbetween the camera and the item.
I haven't a clue how they got it to focus.
I used to have to clamber up onto chairs in a dark room to take photographs down a microscope, fiddling around with f-stops. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to those facilities. I even had to do my own developing. ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 31, 2019, 04:32:26 PM
I've tried using a lens, the macro setting on the camera won't let me turn off the flash, very annoying  ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2019, 04:55:31 PM
Have you tried forcing the flash off before changing the setting to "flower"?
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: KevinH on May 31, 2019, 05:12:45 PM
Thanks Keith. Good efforts and the pics show the ring just fine - as Sue says, a very "wearable" shape.

https://www.ysartglass.com/PaulYsart/PYP5over.htm gives details at the bottom of the page for the "maker" marks. CJ = Cox Jewellery.

Unfortunately, my recognition of Peter Holmes' versions of the "stones" is very limited but I have no problem in beleiving this one from 1977 was, indeed, made by Peter. Particularly as the later Caithness Glass items with "millefiori stones" tended to be much simpler in design.

I could have a go at photographing my few items of Caithness jewellery with Paul Ysart "stones" and add them here for comparison.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2019, 05:22:53 PM
CJ for Cox Jewellery is with the Birmingham stamp, not the Edinburgh one in which, according to the thing I put above, stands for Caithness Glass.
But your article says the the Edinburgh pieces were made by Scotia silver.  :)

 ???
(I gave up on working out hallmarks a long time ago.)

In the article, it says too, that the later bits used less silver metal (for the cost), but I don't think this particular ring is one of those - the metal is quite solid there and definitely looks individually worked by an artist who knows what they are doing.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on May 31, 2019, 07:10:00 PM
Sue, thought about forcing the camera into the bin a few times !  ::)
Kevin, I'll have another go at the hallmarks but don't hold your breathe !
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 31, 2019, 07:24:38 PM
If whoever made it had been trying to reduce the amount of metal used, the band would have been flat, with a slim ring attached to the surface to hold the cabochon, not built up from the sides in that very solid and chunky manner from the band.
(I've had a go at doing a little bit of silversmithing myself.)
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: Anne on June 01, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
Keith, your ring looks like R16 shown here (middle pic, 2nd row) http://colinterris.co.uk/CGjewels/CGjewel_rings.html and see more about it on Frank's site here (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=258&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6)
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 01, 2019, 05:32:35 PM
The drawing in the second link there (R16) shows a ring with a flat, upright, thin ring of metal attached to the main band holding the cabohon - as I described it would be if they were trying to reduce the amount of metal used.
Linda's ring has the cabochon holder built up from the original band, it's a lot heavier. :)
(The photos in the other link don't really give a great idea of precise details.)

Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: Anne on June 01, 2019, 05:46:34 PM
The problem is the Colin Terris photo is very small and the drawing on Frank's site may not match exactly the finished article (it may not have worked as drawn so was amended). Frank has a bigger scan drawing here https://www.ysartglass.com/PaulYsart/PYP5ring.htm - there doesn't appear to be another ring closer in design to Keith's.  It's a puzzle isn't it?

Edited to add: This appears closer to the R16 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beautiful-Rare-Large-Vintage-Caithness-Glass-Silver-Ring-By-Caithness-Jewellery/153449426590
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 01, 2019, 06:07:32 PM
I'd agree, that is R16. (well sleuthed!) But Linda's ring is quite different.
There are no Edinburgh marks on Frank's page. They're all Birmingham, London or Sheffield.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: Anne on June 01, 2019, 06:30:24 PM
Edinburgh is mentioned in the earlier link though, Sue https://www.ysartglass.com/PaulYsart/PYP5over.htm where it says CJ stands for Cox Jewellery not Caithness Jewellery. Although it's a bit confusing as this para says

Quote
The first manufacturer was Cox Jewellery based in Birmingham, hence the Birmingham hallmark on the earlier pieces. Hallmarks can be used to identify the various manufacturers of the pieces: London — Booty Jewellery (1968-84); Edinburgh — Scotia Jewellers and Lochinver Silver; No hallmark — Stratton Jewellers. Stratton made cufflinks, tie-pins and pendants. A range of silver boxes were produced by Orkney silversmith, David Hodge, only a very small number were made.

and this one says

Quote
Caithness Glass outsourced the silversmithing, although CG, Caithness Glass, is Caithness Glass’ own registered sponsor marks. Other sponsor’s marks seen are CJ, Cox FG and on a silver box DJH. Assay office marks used were Birmingham, Edinburgh, London and Sheffield. See the end of this article for details on these marks.

I haven't been able to find any other mentions of Cox Jewellery, Scotia Jewellers, or Lochinver Silver as yet which is a bit odd.


Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 01, 2019, 06:40:55 PM
Yet the link I found for silversmith marks says CJ stands for Caithness Jewellery, not Cox.

I did note a full stop after the C, but not after the J   ->.  ;)
I can't find a scrap f anything about a Scotia silver maker - just hallmarks and historical dodgy dealings.
I do not remember any Scotia Jewellery shops in Edinburgh.
The posh modern one was Ian Clarkson.
I believe his son runs it now.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on June 01, 2019, 11:06:57 PM
Thanks all for the info' nice to be able to put names, dates and places to a piece for a change  ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on August 02, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
Here's another, can't make out the hallmarks but it does look like the Edinburgh mark, in too awkward a place to photo and very worn.
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: chopin-liszt on August 02, 2019, 05:32:52 PM
It also looks like proper, chunky "Edinburgh '70s silver design."  ;D
Another goodie. 8)

Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: essi on August 03, 2019, 09:57:44 PM
Not trying to hijack Keith's thread, but this has lead me to identify a pendant I bought  some time ago.
Thanks to having the jewellery part of the Ysart website pointed out to me I now know it's a Caithness item made by Frank Guest in Birmingham in 1979.
I did try to photograph the hallmarks but with no great success.
Hope this adds something to the debate.
Tim
Title: Re: Caithness ring, for show.
Post by: keith on August 03, 2019, 11:13:51 PM
Nice piece, my better half would like that  ;D ;D