Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => France => Topic started by: Cathybee on August 27, 2019, 08:34:46 PM
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Could this be Legras? I see no maker's mark. Any suggestions for how to find provenance would be welcome.
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Hello and welcome.
Please post a picture of the base of your piece - even if there is nothing written on it.
Thank you
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I think it's Montjoye, a series or brand by Auguste Heiligenstein for Legras. The signature's normally gold painted but wears off with time.
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I hope these pictures help.
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base
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Thank you for the images.
It is Montjoye definitely. Legras did a special limited range of objects, in this style with these techniques, called Montjoye. Again, the mark wears off with time, so it isn't a problem that your vase has no signature anymore, the style, decor and finishes are typical.
From the images I get the idea that it is quite a substantial vase, just out of curiosity, could you confirm the height please?
Your great-grandmother left you a nice piece, take care of it as it is a valuable one.
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It measures 49 cms.
Any resources suggested for learning about care for such item? Insurance? I'd also love to find out how it came to be in the USA (Philadelphia area) . . . through an old catalogue of an exhibition, etc.
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:o oh wow, I thought it was big but not as much as that...that's a very respectable size.
Just for your information, Montjoye was Legras's top range. A limited production with thick and often acid satin finish glass, decorated with enamel and often gold. The rim that is decorated with gold specks is called in french 'putoisé' and the gold decor is called 'Rocaille'. The irises are a regular theme and here enamelled. It is a very nice example from what I see on the images and you have a serious piece of glass here.
To answer your third question, that's difficult to answer...if only these pieces could talk, right? It could have been transported when people moved country, especially during the war this happened a lot....bought on a trip or maybe Legras did have an outlet in the States at some stage … impossible to tell you with so many possibilities.
For insurance purposes I would not know how this works in the States, but I'm sure you could get information from your insurance company. Maybe they'll refer you to their valuer or a registered antiquarian that they work with. You can get an idea of the going rates on Ebay.
For cleaning purposes, just a damp cloth would suffice. If you do want to use washing-up liquid and give it a good clean, then please put a soft cloth in the sink to place it on and one to clean it with, and for goodness sake, please be careful with the tap. 9 out of 10 pieces get damaged on the rim by hitting the tap. Gold doesn't change colour as it ages, so you don't have to scrub it. If the vase does show some age at some stage, all the better imo, it is in the end a production from roughly 1890-1900 and that's part of its character and again, imo, beauty but that is a personal choice.
It is unusual to see such a piece in this condition and I congratulate you for it...enjoy it, your vase is something that deserves to be looked after.
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I use a fresh microfibre cloth, wrung out in warm water and gently wipe enamel pieces very carefully. Being ultra careful around the enamel and gilding. I would wipe the face of each piece of enamel avoiding any gilding rather than just wiping all over if you see what I mean.
The enamel and gold is fragile and can be damaged. I am careful not to touch them too much as well after being cleaned.
It's a fab vase.
m
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You're right M, it is a fab vase.
You can clean the gold, just don't rub it to make it more shiny because then you'll damage it.
Thank you so much for showing your vase, it made my day and I love the fact that it comes from your great-grandmother, she had good taste, an eye for investment but I hope, even though I haven't got anything to say about it, that it would pass on in your family from generation to generation. It needs to be cherished and looked after as it is a special piece.
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just to include my admiration as well - a wonderful piece showing art nouveau decoration at the height of its fame.
if I may add a little to the sound advice given so far …...………… the gilding is indeed ultra thin, so perhaps not wise to do any rubbing other than a very light and dry dust, and you will need to live with whatever appearance the gold now has. Obviously gold doesn't oxidise in a real sense, but can show a tarnished appearance if exposed to air pollutants such as open fires, tobacco smoke and cooking fumes etc., most of which, fortunately, are issues we no longer live with. Looking at the top edges of the text block of older books, where the edges have been gilded, will show the kind of damage that gilding can suffer when not protected from such pollutants, and the top edges of books kept without protection become dull and dirty, and sadly this deterioration can't be reversed.
Although not mentioned by the others, my suggestion would be that this piece needs to be protected, within a fully enclosed cabinet etc., which hopefully will avoid any more deterioration to the gilding.
From a purely practical perspective, I would also add - if you don't have facilities to provide the sort of care and protection that this piece needs, and sentiment isn't necessarily high on your list, then selling this vase might be a viable option. Of course if the piece does have massive family value then just pretend I didn't offer this suggestion. ;)
P.S. appreciate I'm a little out of touch with modernity, but did think I knew most of the commonly used acronyms - but I seem to be ignorant of 'fab' - is it some sort of praiseworthy expression?
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Fab - very fine, short for fabulous, fabby... Has fab not been in use since the 60s?
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thanks John - sorry, I was only teasing, though have to say I'm ever so young and know nothing of the '60s ;) I was reminded of the expression as I bought some Thunderbirds type toys this morning from a charity shop, and had to ask someone what fab meant. I think the answer was that it has no real obvious meaning other than a sort of 'o.k. - thumbs up - ready to go" sort of meaning - that's apart from the obvious 'fabulous', as you've said. Apologies for digressing - not a cue for some week long discussion about Thunderbirds. ;D
As for acronyms - I've only just got my head round LOL, IIRC and IMHO.
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Thank you all so much for the information and good advice. While the circumstances resulting in the vase being in my possession are sad, it is a piece I have always admired and appreciated. i will keep on with trying to learn more about it, and look after it, in order to pass it on in good condition.
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Paul is right about protecting this piece by displaying it in a cabinet. A perhaps cheaper alternative if you like, I don't know what these things are called in English, you can get them in all sizes, but I would advise you to collect it rather than having it shipped. A nice touch is that you can get them from more or less the same period and it instantly creates an object of interest and if displayed in a certain way, the vase can be viewed from all angles. I would not advise this with children in the household though.
https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/123620802993
(https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/123620802993)
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I think Anne's comments - plus the lady's link - are referring to a 'glass dome'. The Victorians were passionate about such containers, not for showing vases, but more for dead/stuffed birds, sea shells, birds nests/eggs plus a variety of other colourful dead things such as butterflies and their wings etc. - Morpho wings were very de rigueur in the C19 for display purposes - often under glass on tea trays etc.
Much as I have respect for Anne, who has probably forgotten more about glass than I shall ever know, I disagree with Anne's suggestion of a dome for this vase - I think you'd be hard pressed to find a dome substantial enough to contain this vase, and I'm going to suggest a proper fully glazed cabinet instead. I've seen domes at antiques fairs in a variety of sizes, but I think we're pushing it for this piece in view of the unusually large size.
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Hello Paul,
It was just from a financial point of view that I mentioned this. I'm not familiar with these domes in the UK and even less in the US. Here in Belgium you see them everywhere and 60 high is nothing unusual. I have got a smaller version myself. People use them for everything now, from Christmas decorations to Tintin's rocket, they've become quite popular again, but anyway, like I said, it was just an idea.
who has probably forgotten more about glass than I shall ever know
Surely you must have been told when you were young that you shouldn't tell any lies...
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Hi Anne - they still remain not uncommon in the U.K. at the better quality antiques fairs - though whether all the examples I see are genuinely 'antique' - I doubt. Appreciate you comments about the financial aspect, but I'm worried about the centre of gravity - it looks to be higher than I feel comfortable with - but provided you adopt Herod's approach regarding children then, yes, it's probably o.k. The size of this vase is substantial, so finding a proper display cabinet is going to be expensive, but I'd imagine less expensive than a disaster with the vase.
Assume you mean 60 cms. tall ? I'm a big fan of Herge - have many of the books.
As for lies - well, I'm still young and waiting to be told. ;)
P.S. hope you are taking great care of that stained glass window for me. :)
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Yes sorry Paul, 60 cm in height... I only suggested it to protect it from the elements you have mentioned but indeed, children in a household is something else, but anyway, like I said it was just a suggestion, i'll leave it with that.
Windows are all fine, thanks, even after the storms we've had here last month.